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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2002 : 09:23:27
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I'm debating staying on the list, just to see what the nuts come up with next. I did notice a few things as I read through this though. Talk about blatant advertising.
They can't do it without you and you may be part of those in the know.
Aren't these the guys that held that press conference in Wash DC last year?
quote:
Government Insiders Reveal UFO Secrets!
http://www.disclosureproject.org
The Disclosure Project, a 501c(3) non-profit association has identified over 450 government, military, intelligence community and defense contractor witnesses who are willing to testify, under oath, to their direct experience and knowledge of UFOs, xtraterrestrials and Extraterrestrial technology.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Division Chief John Callahan: 'I saw a UFO chase a Japanese 747 across the sky for over half an hour on radar. I've got a videotape. I've got the voice tape. I've got the reports that were filed that will confirm that I'm telling you'. I'm one of those, what you would call, high Government officials in the FAA.'
Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-1971]: 'The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967, part of the 490th Strategic Missile Squad, the top side security guard says, 'Sir, there's a glowing red object hovering right outside the front gate. I'm looking at it right now. I've got all the men out here with their weapons drawn.'[as this was happening] our missiles [nuclear tipped Minuteman One missiles] started shutting down, one by one, so that morning we lost from 16 - 18 ICBMs at the same time UFOs were in the area'
Brigadier General Steven Lovekin: Army National Guard Reserve: 'This piece of an extraterrestrial craft was a grayish foil-like material. it had been taken from one of the ET craft that had crashed in New Mexico... it had been taken from a box of materials that the military was working on.'
Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army: 'I was involved in situations where we did recoveries of crashed flying saucers'. There were bodies involved, some were alive, if I am called before congress to testify, I stand here ready today to do just that [testify to congress].'
The Disclosure Project, a nonprofit research and public interest group, has identified over 400 military, intelligence, government and corporate witnesses to rogue UFO and ET-related projects and events. The testimony of these witnesses along with government documents and other evidence may be seen at www.DisclosureProject.org.
The truth is ready for you. Are you ready for the truth?
EDUCATIONAL BOOKS AND VIDEOS:
We have the following book, video, CD and DVD educational materials available for purchase;
- Disclosure (the book): 573 pages of witness testimony, in-depth background research of UFO sightings and landings, documents proving government knowledge and involvement, and more.
- Extraterrestrial Contact - The Evidence and Implications: 526 pages exploring why ETs are here, the physics of ET travel, the best Government documents related to UFOs, who is maintaining the secrecy and why, what are the implications of disclosing this information, and more.
- National Press Club Conference Video (2 hours): Documentary of the historic May 9, 2001 press conference that introduced the Disclosure Project's "Smoking Gun" witnesses to the World's press.
- Disclosure Witness Video (2 hours): A distillation of over 120 hours of videotaped testimony of dozens of highly credible military, government, and intelligence community witnesses telling of their first hand experience and knowledge of this subject.
- Special Congressional Briefing Video (4 hours): Similar to the above, this video was specially edited for and hand delivered to members of congress, the executive branch, Pentagon officials, NASA officials, etc. prior to and following the May 9 press conference.
- Disclosure DVD Vol. 1: 2 hours of witness testimony with witness bios, our executive summary, briefing documents, and info on how you can help kick open the door to the biggest story in modern times.
- Disclosure Summary CD: Executive summary and briefing documents designed to educate the leaders of society on all aspects of this issue.
YOUR DONATIONS ARE APPRECIATED
The Disclosure Project is a non-profit organization with NO outside funding. Our efforts are supported solely by sales of our educational materials and donations from PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are tired of the secrecy surrounding this subject. We need and want your support to help us locate and record, on videotape, more insider witnesses. We currently have 119 potential witnesses waiting for enough funds to get their stories in the record. You can help make this happen.
ARE YOU A WITNESS OR DO YOU KNOW A WITNESS?
If you are or know someone who is a government, military, or defense contractor witness willing to come forward and join our effort, please contact our office and we will put you in contact with Dr. Greer directly.
PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE ON YOUR LIST. THE TIME IS NOW TO END THE SECRECY!
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
Edited by - Trish on 04/17/2002 09:24:28
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2002 : 10:47:12 [Permalink]
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"We currently have 119 potential witnesses waiting for enough funds to get their stories in the record. You can help make this happen."
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Clarification, please.
Will my donation...
a). Get their stories on the record. What? A CD burner, email, pencil and paper?
b). Buy more witnesses. Everyone knows, the more money you offer the more people will step forward. Volume always overcomes facts.
c). make me a charter member. Embossed certificate? Movie discounts? Free books from Amazon?
(:raig |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2002 : 11:47:44 [Permalink]
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"If you build it, they will come..."
I would actually like to see congressional hearings on the subject. I'd be willing to bet that all but the true lunatics fade into the woodwork, pronto.
f
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2002 : 12:17:53 [Permalink]
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I would actually like to see congressional hearings on the subject. I'd be willing to bet that all but the true lunatics fade into the woodwork, pronto. [filthy]
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...unless they're already in Congress! My rep is Jim Traficant. Ever hear of him?
(:raig
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2002 : 12:22:35 [Permalink]
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I got this same e-mail. The so-called Disclosure Project is built entirely around a fallacy of logic, the appeal to authority. In this case, it takes the form of the alleged credibility of witnesses. "He seems credible" is almost literally a recurring mantra in Ufo propaganda. Knowing the truth and telling the truth are two very different things. If nothing else, this proves beyond a doubt that one staple of the ufo industry is false: the claim that former government employees are silenced by the threat of having their pensions taken away. We also have only the Project's own word (authority again) for who these people are and how credible they are. How do we know that the retired Brigadier General is not an Alzheimer's patient in a nursing home? How do we know that he isn't playing a joke on the ufools? People will do a lot more than make up stories for the sake of a practical joke, even when they aren't making money at it.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2002 : 15:25:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
I got this same e-mail. The so-called Disclosure Project is built entirely around a fallacy of logic, the appeal to authority. In this case, it takes the form of the alleged credibility of witnesses. "He seems credible" is almost literally a recurring mantra in Ufo propaganda. Knowing the truth and telling the truth are two very different things. If nothing else, this proves beyond a doubt that one staple of the ufo industry is false: the claim that former government employees are silenced by the threat of having their pensions taken away. We also have only the Project's own word (authority again) for who these people are and how credible they are. How do we know that the retired Brigadier General is not an Alzheimer's patient in a nursing home? How do we know that he isn't playing a joke on the ufools? People will do a lot more than make up stories for the sake of a practical joke, even when they aren't making money at it.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
I was thinking about just this very thing today while I sat at the VA. It is an appeal to authority but with the added twist that these people do know something because they had top secret clearances. As most of us know, that doesn't necessarily imply a need to know.
But, they also make an appeal to emotion.
quote:
ARE YOU A WITNESS OR DO YOU KNOW A WITNESS?
If you are or know someone who is a government, military, or defense contractor witness willing to come forward and join our effort, please contact our office and we will put you in contact with Dr. Greer directly.
We'll put you right up there with everyone else who knows too. But they need your help.
After further looks at their website [which are different from a lot of ufool websites looks professional - not that that means anything but better than some I found yesterday] this is the group that held the press conference in DC last year.
Guess it's time to plug into their site a bit more and slog through some of the testimonials. Though they've pointed out that they had 180 hours of testimony on tape and cut that to 33 hours and again to 18 hours, resulting in one of the books listed in the email. I wonder just how much and what type of 'cutting' was done, though it is claimed that they worked to not alter the 'meaning' of the testimony.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 03:10:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Guess it's time to plug into their site a bit more and slog through some of the testimonials.
I think this is one of the biggest problems. How many people really have the time and the patience to 'slog through' these claims, and all the claims like it. If y'all have the time and the means, please let the rest of us know about what you find.
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 03:54:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think this is one of the biggest problems. How many people really have the time and the patience to 'slog through' these claims, and all the claims like it.
This is indeed a big problem, especially when dealing with UFO claims. The professional ufools know that it is easier to make a claim than to disprove one. When a claim is debunked, they simply cite 50 new ones that haven't been. This is the rationale for their common assertion that volume alone proves the truth of the claims, a variation of the ad populem fallacy, and yet another indication of their compulsive authoritarianism. The key to this, of course, is that they have managed to subvert logic and shift the burden of proof to doubters, partly because skeptics are well-educated people and therefore too polite to imply that someone is a liar. I have overcome that particular handicap in my dealings with ufools.
They seems to be everywhere now. I got this one in my Skeptic Friends mailbox this morning:quote:
Several military and intelligence witnesses who were Strategic Air Command (SAC) and other nuclear specialists have come forward with testimony proving that UFOs are real and appear to be concerned about our nuclear weapons.
The Disclosure Project (www.DisclosureProject.org) has obtained the first-hand testimony of several such insiders whose documents and corroborating testimony proves that UFOs have monitored sensitive nuclear facilities since at least the 1950s. While the UFOs were not hostile, it was made clear that they were very concerned about human weapons of mass destruction. On one occasion, UFOs over a SAC Nuclear launch area took more than a dozen intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) offline.
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.): ?I was the top-secret control officer at Malmstom AFB for the 20th Air Division. I happened to see a message that came through my communications center. It said...that ?A UFO was seen near missile silos'...and it was hovering. It said that the crew going on duty and the crew coming off duty all saw the UFO just hovering in mid-air. It was a metallic circular object and from what I understand, the missiles were all shut down. What I mean by ?missiles going down? is that they went dead. And something turned those missiles off, so they couldn?t be put back in a mode for launching.?
Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-1971]: ?The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967. ?on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic missile squad and there are five launch control facilities assigned to that particular squadron?. and I received a call from my topside security guard?and he said that he and some of the guards had been observing some strange lights flying around the site around the launch control facility. I said, you mean UFO? He said, well, he didn?t know what they were but they were lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes; They were not helicopters. They weren?t making any noise?[A little later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead missiles...this incident was of extreme concern to SAC headquarters because they couldn?t explain it.?
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/Atomic Energy Commission (ret.): ?After retiring from the Air Force I joined the Boeing company and was responsible for accounting for all of the nuclear fleet of Minuteman missiles. In this incident they actually photographed the UFO following the missile as it climbed into space and, shining a beam on it, neutralized the missile. I also learned of a number of incidents which happened, a couple of nuclear weapons sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. Our government sent a nuclear weapon for explosion on the moon?s surface?[And] the ETs destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. [Apparently] the idea of any explosion in space by any Earth government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials, and that has been demonstrated over and over.?
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. USAF 1369th Photo Squadron: "...we were testing ballistic missiles that were to deliver nuclear weapons on target...my duty [was] to supervise the instrumentation photography of every missile that went down in that western test range...and into the frame came something else. It flew into the frame and shot a beam of light at the warhead. Now, remember, all this stuff was flying at several thousand miles an hour, so this thing fires a beam of light at the warhead, hits it, .... The warhead tumbles out of space. The object, the points of light that we saw, the warhead and so forth, were traveling through subspace about sixty miles straight up, and they were going somewhere in the neighborhood of eleven to fourteen thousand miles an hour, when this thing caught up to them, flew in, flew around them, and flew back out."
Subspace? At one time SAC had over 100,000 people assigned, ranging from janitors and cooks to scientists and presidential confidantes. Being a member of SAC does not make one a "nuclear specialist." I also have to wonder of what subject Jacobs is a professor.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
Edited by - piltdown on 04/18/2002 03:58:00 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 07:30:32 [Permalink]
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Just a thought....
Why would any (hypothetical), extra-terrestrial species care what we were doing on this, our less than significant, little mudball in a remote part of the galaxy? Indeed, if they came here and observed us, they'd find a world dominated by a clever, very prolific, highly aggressive species with the capability of destroying and / or plundering them and anything else we might take offense to. We're too unpredictable and therefore too dangerous. I suspect that any sort of contact with us would be out of the question and better projects can be found elsewhere.
Killing each other, from an outsider's point of view, is what we seem to do best. We'd love the chance to take a crack at that outsider.
I'll start believing in visiting 'space aliens' when I see one trying to talk Ashcroft out of putting him and his crew before a military tribunal.
But all in all, except for the odd, financial rip-off, it seems pretty much of a harmless fantasy.
f
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 07:36:17 [Permalink]
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Opps! Forgot!
The fantasy's not so harmless after all. Remember that cult that did themselves in, after some physical mutilation, in the belief that they were going to hitch a ride in a space ship in the tail of a comet?
And I've read that some serial killers claimed that UFOs talked them into 'doing it'.
Hmm.
f
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 08:53:24 [Permalink]
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I've been getting E-mails from this guy
http://64.49.227.89/beckjord/meaningoflife/
Erick Beckjord BA, MBA who has combined creationism/UFOlogy/I.D.
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
The Preparation of the Gospel
Edited by - slater on 04/18/2002 08:54:06 |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 10:49:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Erick Beckjord BA, MBA who has combined creationism/UFOlogy/I.D.
FUN! *rolls eyes*
________________________
Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...
*whine* |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2002 : 12:45:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Erick Beckjord BA, MBA who has combined creationism/UFOlogy/I.D.
Does he consistently refer to himself in the third person?
quote:
At one time SAC had over 100,000 people assigned, ranging from janitors and cooks to scientists and presidential confidantes. Being a member of SAC does not make one a "nuclear specialist." I also have to wonder of what subject Jacobs is a professor.
Hmm, so his hundreds outweigh the one I know that sat in silos? Damn.
Have you ever noticed that most of the Disclosure Projects sightings are from the late 50s early 60s? Why can't they find someone more recent who might have noticed this stuff?
Tim-
I'll only slog through some of the testimonials about UFOs. Some of them will be of the same sighting. So should reduce the number. With the dates on the sightings they should have already been countered. Might find a new one though.
I will agree with Piltdown, it is the ufools position to prove that there are spaceships and that they are alien, not our part to prove they're lying.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
Edited by - Trish on 04/18/2002 12:46:14 |
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