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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2001 : 08:48:32
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Just wondering what you guys thought about this idea, and it's ethical and practical implications. I would imagine that the enforcement would be very costly. And what would the impact on campaigning be?
(Limit this to only Presidential, U.S. Congressional, and U.S. Senatorial elections.)
[Don't assume because I'm asking that I'm for making it illegal not to vote.]
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Gambatte kudasai!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 06/14/2001 13:10:53
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2001 : 08:56:57 [Permalink]
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Misguided. Do you think forcing someone to the polls who does not want to be there will produce a reasoned ballot? More likely a random one. If that's acceptable, just cast lots.
For some interesting thinking on civic responsibility, read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers." (Forget the movie which bore almost no resemblance to the book and was horrible.)
My kids still love me. |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 09:01:16 [Permalink]
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I say it's stupid. I don't vote. I don't need to nor do I want to. Plus, I think it's a violation of one of the Bill of Rights.
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." -Master Yoda |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 09:02:46 [Permalink]
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I think I heard recently that some country did this, but I don't remember where I heard it or what country it was.
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 09:04:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Do you think forcing someone to the polls who does not want to be there will produce a reasoned ballot?
I thought of this in reference to campaigns. How would it affect people up for elections, scrambling around for the smallest edge in getting the people who couldn't care less about voting, but had to, in voting for them?
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 12:39:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just wondering what you guys thought about this idea, and its ethical and practical implications. I would imagine that the enforcement would be very costly. And what would the impact on campaigning be?
Really bad idea, in my opinion. Voting (in all elections) is a *responsibility* on the order of paying taxes or answering a call to arms to defend the country. Forcing people to do their duty won't work; a sense of responsibility has to be ingrained in a person's psyche rather than imposed from outside.
Besides, there's already too much of a "bread and circuses" mentality already. {Personal bias here, but we already have too many liberals "giving away the store" to professional leeches.} Can you imagine the pandering that would go on if everyone was required to vote? To say nothing of the enforcement nightmare that this would entail.
I second Garrette's referral to Starship Troopers; although Heinlein is even more crotchety than I on this issue, he makes some extremely good points.
(BTW: happy Flag Day to those of us in the States. Take some time to salute Old Glory today, if you are so inclined.)
Edited by - Zandermann on 06/14/2001 12:43:25 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 13:06:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Voting (in all elections) is a *responsibility* on the order of paying taxes or answering a call to arms to defend the country.
I'm just curious about your choice of examples here, as paying taxes and getting drafted are NOT voluntary, they are imposed by law...
But I do agree that all three are a responsibility (in general).
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 13:34:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
(me) Voting (in all elections) is a *responsibility* on the order of paying taxes or answering a call to arms to defend the country.
(TDreamer) I'm just curious about your choice of examples here, as paying taxes and getting drafted are NOT voluntary, they are imposed by law...
But I do agree that all three are a responsibility (in general).
Ahh, true, not voluntary, but in the (admittedly hypothetical) perfect society, paying for and defending that society would not need to be mandated.
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 15:53:00 [Permalink]
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Requiring that everyone vote would be a mistake.
Many casting their vote would merely vote for whoever looked the best, or made the most outlandish promises.
This is the case with the system we have now, but why add to it? If everyone voted would we get a better class of candidates into office? I think not.
The next step would then be a popular vote on issues like abortion, civil rights, the bill of rights.
Fundies would demand no abortions and tree huggers would demand an end to all energy production (Nuclear, coal, dams). The hispanic portion of the populace would demand bilingual everything, and we'd start to resemble Canada.
Next pornography would go then Beer, then dancing!! President travolta would then begin to give hints that L Ron had a message for us.....
Boy this is really degenerating, I'll stop now.
Edited by - sega on 06/14/2001 15:53:56 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 17:38:45 [Permalink]
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As we've seen so many times in other countries and this one, voting does not equal democracy. It's a good question for debate, but it looks like so far no one really thinks this is a good idea.
What we need, as I've said before, is to look at our corporate media, our system of lobbying and "think tanks," and see what might be a better system for dispensing information.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 18:04:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
What we need, as I've said before, is to look at our corporate media, our system of lobbying and "think tanks," and see what might be a better system for dispensing information.
The "better system" would consist of folks getting up off of their asses, digging for information from as many sources as possible, questioning the validity of it, and debating with others. In other words, they would have to take some responsibility for democracy.
Regards,
Greg.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 18:13:48 [Permalink]
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Here's a novel thought.
Instead of making it the law that everyone must vote, let's make it the law that the votes that are cast are all counted.
And lets start with Florida.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 18:52:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
The "better system" would consist of folks getting up off of their asses, digging for information from as many sources as possible, questioning the validity of it, and debating with others. In other words, they would have to take some responsibility for democracy.
Whoa now! That would cut heavily into quality "bitching about the guvment" time.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 19:09:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Whoa now! That would cut heavily into quality "bitching about the guvment" time.
Yeah! I don't want to *learn* anything before I force others to respect my opinion!
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 19:14:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
The "better system" would consist of folks getting up off of their asses, digging for information from as many sources as possible, questioning the validity of it, and debating with others. In other words, they would have to take some responsibility for democracy.
Regards,
Greg.
Well, yes, that's fine for people who don't have to work for a living.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 19:16:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Whoa now! That would cut heavily into quality "bitching about the guvment" time.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Yes, and time away from bitchin' about those that want to make the world a better place.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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