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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2002 : 14:55:03
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Welcome to the wonderful world of religious law.
In Pakistan a rape victim has been sentenced to be stoned to death for getting raped. The Rapists goes free because the religious law applies different standards for men and women.
Read the story hereand
here.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2002 : 15:14:26 [Permalink]
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Fundementlist religon is perhaps the greatest evil on earth. If the Christian fundies should turn this country into the theocracy they wish, this disgusting situation in what we'd have to look forward to.
f
"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2002 : 15:28:12 [Permalink]
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They can have my constitution when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
That poor girl.
Go Wings!
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2002 : 18:19:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Fundementlist religon is perhaps the greatest evil on earth. If the Christian fundies should turn this country into the theocracy they wish, this disgusting situation in what we'd have to look forward to.
If anything, they would be worse here. In Pakistan's tribal areas, there has never been a tradition of free thought or rational analysis, so fundy advocates have not been inoculated against it or developed an elaborate rationale against it, at least not on a mass basis. In this country, however, the hard core of fundy authoritarianism has been calloused and conditioned by centuries of resisting the forces of reason. They have a much longer enemies list than their hill tribe counterparts do.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2002 : 19:06:11 [Permalink]
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I had heard that rape was uncommon in Islamic societies. After reading that, I can't help but wondering if it's really quite common and just doesn't get reported because the victims fear being victimized a second time by the courts.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2002 : 22:55:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
I had heard that rape was uncommon in Islamic societies. After reading that, I can't help but wondering if it's really quite common and just doesn't get reported because the victims fear being victimized a second time by the courts.
Damned straight! Anyone (ie. Bush) who says that Islam is a peaceful religion is ignoring the brutal laws in the Koran.
By the way, the only thing that distinguishes a "fundamentalist extremist" from the normal religious person is that the extremist is NOT a "cafeteria" believer. They claim that the ENTIRE holy book is "god's word" and they ACT on ALL of it. The other believers, while more humane are also more disengenious because they claim that their "holy book" is "god's word" also, but they ignore the more brutal parts of it, while pretending that their religion is "good".
Sadly, the only time that any religious group is "scripturally consistent" is when they get enough power. Then, they enact the more brutal laws! Judeo-xtianity is no different. There is an OT law where the woman gets stoned if she's raped within city limits because it's assumed that she could have cried for help but did not. It does NOT take into account that the guy could have had a knife to her! The "omniscient" god should have been able to see that, and tell the priests whether the woman had consenual sex or was raped. The fact that they had to make an all-encompassing law that doesn't take that factor into account is just more evidence for me that there is no god.
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Stygma
New Member
36 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 20:29:59 [Permalink]
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Of course their god is omniscient and had already known that would happen. How dare you accuse Him® of someting like that! He has His Ways(TM), who are you to question the mysterious whims of God©?
Sigh. This sort of thing makes me laugh morbidly, pity on those countries, and want to kill a cat, all at once.
In /dev/null no-one can hear you scream. |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 21:00:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Damned straight! Anyone (ie. Bush) who says that Islam is a peaceful religion is ignoring the brutal laws in the Koran.
It's actually not that brutal, for a religion.
Ugh, I defended a religion. I feel so dirty. 
Anyways, this article argues that women have few rights under Islam: http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html
And this article argues that they do:
http://www.twf.org/Library/WomenICJ.html
P.S: does anyone think a 'Skeptic's Annotated Q'ran' is in order?
P.P.S: Does anyone know what, if anything, the Q'ran says about rape?
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!Go Wings!
- Cthulhu Saves! -
Edited by - Xev on 05/22/2002 21:02:19 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 09:56:33 [Permalink]
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Justification for September 11 is in the q'ran. Kill all those with other gods with god, where ever you may find them.
The Q'ran goes up and down on its brutality - much as the babble. Look for Ibn Warraq's website. Former muslim turned atheist. He offers a pretty straight forward interpretation of the q'ran and its intent. There are a few other sites. Or contact the Atheists and Freethinkers of Denver and (seriously only $10 bucks) order their reference CD - it has the q'ran on it.
Ok, I'll agree that we must drop silly sports grievances in the face of a fundy attack. Go Avs! (the other thread was locked before I got to say anything else)
---
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 10:20:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Justification for September 11 is in the q'ran. Kill all those with other gods with god, where ever you may find them.
Well to be fair, one has to admit that there also is plenty of justification for genocide in the Bible or the jewish holy book (Tora/Tanach?). At least people in the past have used them as such.
One also has to see that there is considerable difference between muslim countries. Pakistan is among the worst of them in regards to such things as womans rights.
I think the basic problem behind the islamic law thing is not that the islam is a inherently 'bad' religion. It is not really all that different from other religions.
The problem in my opinion is that they derive their laws from sources like holy-books, that can't be questioned or critiziced. This just opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You get the same problems whenever you put a principle you base your laws on beyond questioning.
You can't use common sense or logic to argue a law that is based on something like that, because it would be heretic, couter-revolutionary, communistic or unpatriotic.
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 10:25:19 [Permalink]
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"Justification for September 11 is in the q'ran. Kill all those with other gods with god, where ever you may find them."
You are absolutly right, Trish. This site should prove of interest:
http://www.biblia.com/islam/war.htm
And yes, we can drop the silly sports fued. Go Wings!
Lars:
"The problem in my opinion is that they derive their laws from sources like holy-books, that can't be questioned or critiziced. This just opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You get the same problems whenever you put a principle you base your laws on beyond questioning."
Right! Islam isn't worse than any other religion, and it's probably better than some, this is simply what happens when church and state are combined.
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- Cthulhu Saves! -
Edited by - Xev on 05/23/2002 10:27:55 |
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
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Omega
Skeptic Friend
Denmark
164 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 16:40:35 [Permalink]
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Lars> It's the Tora.
Yes, all modern large religions are much the same in context (Buddhism, Jewism, Chrsitianity, Islam). One over-God who's all-powerful, other religions are “evil” and run by satanic heretics.
I get cautious when someone enters a comment like:
"Justification for September 11 is in the q'ran. Kill all those with other gods with god, where ever you may find them."”
I understand the meaning, but it easily sounds as if all Muslims are behind the catastrophe last year.
The Bible has been used to justify genocide on indigenous people all over the world. To burn scholars and women, and justify the belief that women are inferior to men. I once read in a newspaper that some Muslim countries can be viewed as Europe 300 years ago in regards to separation of church and state, and the treatment of women.
Even today Western women sometimes don't retort a rape, to avoid being accused of “asking for it.” (A movie with Jodie Foster comes to mind, the title eludes me at the moment.)
"All it takes to fly is to fling yourself at the ground... and miss."
- Douglas Adams |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 18:11:10 [Permalink]
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Perhaps the trouble lies in the propensity of established (or even majority) religions to justify and preserve from scrutiny cultural baggage that really needs to be re-thought.
By way of example, chattel slavery was inherited from the pagan ancient world, and continued to exist under Christianity and Islam, theologically justified by the Christian church (I don't know about Islam).
By taking up inherited notions and placing them among the sacred, we can end up facing the modern world with the petrified ethical tools left behind by primitive ancestors.
There always seems something vaguely tribal about hard-core fundy looniness of whichever stripe. I seem to hear "the sound of tom-toms and the stamp of naked feet".
Ford, there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out.
Edited by - ktesibios on 05/23/2002 18:12:43 |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2002 : 07:05:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Lars> It's the Tora.
Usually spelled 'Torah', I believe.
quote:
Even today Western women sometimes don't retort a rape, to avoid being accused of “asking for it.” (A movie with Jodie Foster comes to mind, the title eludes me at the moment.)
I think it's "The Accused", oddly enough 
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2002 : 07:28:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Lars> It's the Tora.
Usually spelled 'Torah', I believe.
I looked it up and Tora(h) apperantly only refers to the first five books of Moses while TaNaKh/Tanach means the entire hebrew version of the old testament. Spelling depends on the form of transliteration you choose. You learn something new everyday.
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