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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2002 : 11:51:10 [Permalink]
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Wow, that is really cool. Did anyone expect to find so much water? I mean maybe some sure, but that is lot of ice.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 12:11:13 [Permalink]
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I think we should put this discovery in the right perspective. NASA found exactly what it needed to find to get more Mars-missions funded. I doubt they were looking very hard for evidence that such a mission might not be needed.
Don't get me wrong I am all for the further explaration of Mars and I do hope we find lots of interesting things there, but I think this news is best taken with a grain of salt. At least until they reveal more about their findings and interpretations.
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jec96
Skeptic Friend
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 13:26:55 [Permalink]
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Ah to dream, where there is ice, there may be liquid water, where there is water...life? Too much sci-fi maybe...
-It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 15:23:44 [Permalink]
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I have to admit that I did get a sense that it was not 100% certainty about the water and that it was still just a "good chance" that what they detected is water. It's still fairly exciting but as always we have to wait to see how the story develops.
@tomic
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Paulnib68
New Member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 17:04:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have to admit that I did get a sense that it was not 100% certainty about the water and that it was still just a "good chance" that what they detected is water. It's still fairly exciting but as always we have to wait to see how the story develops.
@tomic
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Skeptics Tricks |
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Paulnib68
New Member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 17:07:07 [Permalink]
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DAGNABBIT! Post got eaten again!
At least I saved it before posting. Sorry for the double post.
Aww c'mon. This type of suspicion is best left to conspiracy theorists isn't it?
I mean, sure, there could be motivation to suspect ulterior motives if you had reason to distrust Nasa in the first place but seriously. This hardly seems enough to justify a suspicion that Nasa may be embellishing data.
Is this how far the conspiracy paranoia has penetrated? To the point where those who claim to hold that only facts are worth admission into consideration are willing to cast doubt upon what is apparently well supported data simply because they "feel" there might be reason to doubt?
Sure Nasa needs a boost. But they have shown over the years, and reiterated this position, that they wish to increase support through success. They have acknowledged their failures when they happen and openly stated they wish to do the best they can. They have asked for the publics support and promise regardless of what happens, they can provide new and exciting insights to the questions the world has regarding our universe.
And here they show it, and those who should understand the nature of theoretical datum deign to instead confer disbelief because of what?
They do not trust Nasa to tell the truth? Why?
That is my question. Why? Do you really feel Nasa is going to lie in such a case as this , when the benefits are not certain, and the losses could be great if exposed, in the hopes that no one will critically disseminate their data and reach their own conclusion?
I realize this will bring criticism but I am dissapointed. Nasa has been a damn good agency throughout all it's trials and tribulations, much of which has been over sensationalized by the media to it's detriment. And it has still managed to be the epitomy of human progress in our advancement beyond the bounderies of our own planet.
Which is no small feat considering the constraints placed upon it over the years by shortsighted naysayers and politicaly motivated detractors concerned only with their own special interests.
Man, maybe I am overreacting, but geez. To see doubt with no apparent basis for it. That worries me.
Skeptics Tricks |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 17:29:05 [Permalink]
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Remeber ALH 84001?
I am not accusing Nasa of lieing. I just think that in some cases they are a bit overly optimistic. They don't even have to misstate the truth. They just have to let the media do their work.
Statements like "We have found indicators that might be interpreted as hinting towards a large mass of frozen water under the surface of the Mars. This mass would be greater and closer to the surface then previously expected." gets easily shortend by the press to "Water on Mars!".
It is not that I doubt without a reason. I just take those reports of Nasa like I would take any biased source. My reasons for doubt are based on a general knowledge of human nature, knowledge of past behavior of the entity in question and my habit to doubting everything and everybody as much I reasonably can.
I admit that NASA is far more trust worthy than other agencies, but there are still human beings making those press releases.
I actually think that it is likely that there is as much water as they say, where they say.
One day I will learn to check wether my post actually make sense before I hit the post button, so I won't have to edit it afterwards. Today is not that day.
Edited by - Lars_H on 05/26/2002 17:34:35 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 18:46:24 [Permalink]
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I find this very exciting, politics aside (in our world, politics are unescapable). I eagerly look forward to further reports.
I only wish that I could live long enough to see it first hand.
f
If I do not return to the pulpit this weekend, millions of people will go to hell.
-- Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, 20 May 1988
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 19:24:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
NASA found exactly what it needed to find to get more Mars-missions funded.
Nonsense. Is this cynicism based on any concrete evidence?
I think it isn't, considering that the budget has been increasing for at least the past two years. The 2002 budget specifically mentions funding for a more robust Mars exploration program.
quote:
"I'm concerned about program balance. Mars currently takes something like 20 percent of NASA's entire Office of Space Science budget. I am not convinced that this is appropriate. With the Pluto mission clearly at risk, and Mars funding increasing, we're in danger of focusing too much on Mars," Jakosky told SPACE.com.
This doesn't sound like Mars needs to lie to get more funding...
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Truth above pride and ego; truth above all
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 05/26/2002 19:31:48 |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 19:59:16 [Permalink]
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It did occur to me that what they've actually found is hydrogen. They assume it is in the form of water. Doesn't hydrogen tend to combine well with a lot of things?
(my chemistry's a bit rusty)
It also occurred to me that if there really is that much water there, it could make terraforming a bit tricky. You don't really want to flood the entire planet.
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Paulnib68
New Member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2002 : 21:59:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think it isn't, considering that the budget has been increasing for at least the past two years. The 2002 budget specifically mentions funding for a more robust Mars exploration program.
quote:
"I'm concerned about program balance. Mars currently takes something like 20 percent of NASA's entire Office of Space Science budget. I am not convinced that this is appropriate. With the Pluto mission clearly at risk, and Mars funding increasing, we're in danger of focusing too much on Mars," Jakosky told SPACE.com.
This doesn't sound like Mars needs to lie to get more funding...
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Good point. If I hadn't gotten so worked up so easily I might have used my head and looked at it more rationally as you have.
And if it seems the media is responsible for misrepresenting the truth then hold them responsible. It's specious reasoning to assume Nasa "lets the media do its thing".
Skeptics Tricks |
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Physiofly
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2002 : 12:52:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
It did occur to me that what they've actually found is hydrogen. They assume it is in the form of water. Doesn't hydrogen tend to combine well with a lot of things?
(my chemistry's a bit rusty)
I think they're assuming it's water since it's the most likely explanation (applying Occam's Razor). I guess methane or ammonia would give the same signal but they'd probably be liquid or gas at Mars temperature and pressure. Then again, there's no reason it couldn't be methanol or ethanol. It would certainly make for more exiting headlines - "Gin Found on Mars! NASA Plans Intergalactic Keger!"
"Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a
deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions." - Niccolo Machiavelli
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2002 : 17:15:04 [Permalink]
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Better yet, how about H2O and ethanol? Preferably at a temperature and pressure that allow for some of the water to be frozen.
Who needs Mars rocks if we could discover vodka on the rocks?
Ford, there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out. |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2002 : 23:34:13 [Permalink]
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Sorry If I got a bit to paranoid there and offended anyone.
And ktesibios if you are looking for booze in space, there is that ethanol nebula a thosand times bigger then our entire solar sytem in the general direction of aquila that might interest you.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2002 : 23:37:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Sorry If I got a bit to paranoid there and offended anyone.
And ktesibios if you are looking for booze in space, there is that ethanol nebula a thosand times bigger then our entire solar sytem in the general direction of aquila that might interest you.
Okay, I'll meet you guys there. Is Saturday about 1800 too soon?
Lisa
We have enough youth. We need a fountain of smart. |
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