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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 05/29/2002 : 20:03:06 [Permalink]
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It was a while ago, but I learned cognitive dissonance to be the result of the dichotomy between one's behavior and one's beliefs. That is, if one behaves in a way that is contrary to a previously held belief, it is likely one will change or justify that belief in order to make the behavior personally acceptable.
With respect to religious fundamentalism, one way to look at it is that certain irrational behaviors are socially encouraged, leading to a discord between behavior and belief. I suppose this is related to brainwashing in some way. Ah well, just thinking out loud really. Make of this what you will.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2002 : 20:59:13 [Permalink]
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Some of my family are JW and quite fervent about it. I've run into the odd fundy in my years too.
With regard to the "why" question, in my experience, it seems that they're trying to convince themselves, trying to comfort themselves, trying to make the world the way they wish it was.
They don't care about the facts as the facts don't match their fervent desire. They want the fairy tale so badly they will do anything to trick themselves and anyone else into thinking their way, in the hopes that by sheer belief, everything will be happy bunnies and flowery fields.
This is how it seems to me, anyway. Reality bites, and they can't take it without a big shield to hide behind, even if it's only paper mache.
If you think it's work, you're doing it wrong. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2002 : 21:54:29 [Permalink]
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The ICR sells books that take scientists words out of context to make the creationist case. They know they are doing it. Otherwise they would include the missing context. Or, admit that they are wrong. They sell these books to those interested in arguing for scientific creationism. There is just no way around it. They know they are lieing.
Bearing false witness is a ticket to hell for these people, last I heard. So what's in it for them?
Duane Gish probably does all right, but I doubt he is raking it in like, oh, Benny Hinn is. Duane Gish directs his debates with "other" scientists at the audience. Usually a church group. He knows he cant win anyone over to scientific creationism based on the evidence for it. But he is a skilled debater. And by now, I bet he knows he is also a liar. Either that or he really is stupid. He isn't. If he really believes as he says he does, he goes to hell.
It's not that they believe evolution must be wrong so they delude themselves into believing a ridiculous case against it. Why? Because they wouldn't have to lie if that was all there was to it.
I'm with Slater. I don't get it.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2002 : 05:24:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Bearing false witness is a ticket to hell for these people, last I heard.
It's not quite that simple. Being in Southern Baptist Land here, I grew up being taught that if you believed in Jesus, and that he was the Son of God, then you go to Heaven, no matter what you do (as long as you simply ask forgiveness for your "sins"). Ask a fundy whether or not Ted Bundy would have gone to Heaven had he said that stupid prayer that the Chick Tracts claim is the ticket to Heaven right before they flipped the switch, and they will say, "Of course!".
A little lyin' for Jesus is seen as a good thing! They're saving souls, and what could be more important or "good" than that? God will forgive them, after all...
[In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if these guys simply said a prayer every night, saying "God, forgive me for lyin', but I'm bringin' you more souls! amen" and drifting peacefully off to sleep, secure in their "knowledge" that that makes everything all right.]
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Truth above pride and ego; truth above all
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 05/30/2002 05:26:36 |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2002 : 10:49:48 [Permalink]
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Agree with TD to a point - we're talking about the intellectual heirs of the witch-hunters who murdered in order to save souls.
However, I think that there is somthing else going on - they not only lie, they believe their lies. And this, I think, involves double-think.
And plenty are motivated only by greed - such as Pat Robertson.
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!Go Wings!
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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Wiley
Skeptic Friend
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2002 : 13:56:44 [Permalink]
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Xev,
I gonna have to disagree with you. Pat Robertson is not only motivated by greed but by power as well.
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Wiley
Skeptic Friend
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2002 : 15:23:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's not quite that simple. Being in Southern Baptist Land here, I grew up being taught that if you believed in Jesus, and that he was the Son of God, then you go to Heaven, no matter what you do (as long as you simply ask forgiveness for your "sins"). Ask a fundy whether or not Ted Bundy would have gone to Heaven had he said that stupid prayer that the Chick Tracts claim is the ticket to Heaven right before they flipped the switch, and they will say, "Of course!".
A little lyin' for Jesus is seen as a good thing! They're saving souls, and what could be more important or "good" than that? God will forgive them, after all...
Before being transplanted to Colorado, I lived in Georgia and South Carolina. And I've met plenty of creationists. From my experience these people actually believe what they spew. From their point of view, they are not lying. When presented with the facts, they believe the facts are incorrect since the Bible can not be incorrect.
Are they provincial, close-minded, willfully ignorant tools of the Devil? Without a doubt. Are they liars? No.
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Blair Nekkid
New Member
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2002 : 21:45:19 [Permalink]
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<quote>
"Provincial, close-minded, willfully ignorant tools of the Devil"
</quote>
I like that, its has a good beat and you can dance to it.
The most frightening thing of all is this descriptions fits, to varying degrees, 85% of the planets population.
Cheers,
Blair
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
Bertrand Russell |
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jec96
Skeptic Friend
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2002 : 16:15:40 [Permalink]
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Gotta agree with TD...here in da South, we don't cotten to you fancy pants, know it all, book lernin folks....or something like that. The phrase "The end justifies the means" comes into play here. If that means faking footprints, causing miracles, etc. then so be it, if it brings folks to the Lord and stops those evil,liberal,over educated heathens. I think this is isolated to a few, while, as it was said earlier, the sheep follow...
-It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2002 : 19:15:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Gotta agree with TD...here in da South, we don't cotten to you fancy pants, know it all, book lernin folks....or something like that. The phrase "The end justifies the means" comes into play here. If that means faking footprints, causing miracles, etc. then so be it, if it brings folks to the Lord and stops those evil,liberal,over educated heathens. I think this is isolated to a few, while, as it was said earlier, the sheep follow...
Indeed. Here in Pensacola, we have our very own Benny Hinn-esque sideshow.
Check out The Brownsville Revival.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume
Edited by - phdreamer on 06/06/2002 19:17:04
Edited by - phdreamer on 06/06/2002 19:19:25 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2002 : 23:21:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Wiley : Are they liars? No.
From dictionary.com:
li·ar n. One that tells lies.
liar A person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who lies.
liar n : a person who has lied or who lies repeatedly
All these definitions of the word liar fits the cretinists well.
"God-as revealed in his book of edicts and narratives is practically an idiot. He has nothing to say that any sensible person should want to listen to."
-- Johann Most
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Jesus
New Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2002 : 15:52:01 [Permalink]
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P D I can only take about two seconds of that.
Eat more Xtian,taste like fish |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2002 : 21:57:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
P D I can only take about two seconds of that.
Better than most. I used to deliver pizzas in that area. There was literally always a service of some kind going on.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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