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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2001 : 19:17:19
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What if every person on this planet were equally reasonable, rational, brilliant, skeptical, etc., without a *true believer* in the lot?
We would all be bored to death, that's what!
Even in scientific circles, there is disagreement. How could anybody survive such a conformity without controversy?
I am glad that people are different and have different ideas. It is fun to get a good laugh about some of the ridiculous beliefs. And we all pat ourselves on the back (that is, those of us who can still reach our backs) for our superiority over those other poor creatures.
Doing better and knowing better is just great until you find somebody who surpasses you in knowledge. Then again, intelligent people have their areas of expertise, and nobody can have it all at the same time.
ljbrs
Then again every person thinks he/she/it is right...
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2001 : 22:39:26 [Permalink]
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I agree that a life without controversy and good debate would be a tad on the side of boring.
quote:
Then again every person thinks he/she/it is right...
How true.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2001 : 01:55:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
I agree that a life without controversy and good debate would be a tad on the side of boring.
But you're talking a ripping good debate. How many times have we been interrupted over on BA by some of our "good friends". In the middle of a discussion about asteroid strikes, we get Piper saying "You're all nuts, I'm going to be king, etc, etc."
I'm on these boards to learn. It's very frustrating when I'm just getting the grasp of some concept, and some nimrod posts something flameworthy.
I like the threads that deal with "But what if..?" and "Why is it...?".
These trolls aren't here to learn. They've bought in to their crackpot theories, and no force on earth will move them.Their minds are fetid stagnant pools, and in a way, I almost pity them. They no longer want to learn. They do not belong in a rational debate.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2001 : 15:18:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
These trolls aren't here to learn. They've bought in to their crackpot theories, and no force on earth will move them.Their minds are fetid stagnant pools, and in a way, I almost pity them. They no longer want to learn. They do not belong in a rational debate.
I enjoy a good debate, makes me stop and think things through. From a half formed concept into whatever it becomes. As for trolls - well they don't belong in debate. Debate should be as educational as asking questions, both for those debating and those listening. Rationality belongs in any and all debates.
There are rules for debating issues and an authoritarian because I said so attitude as displayed by Piper and the likes is not debate. So I understand with your flamewar interuptions, that's not controversy and debate - that's a because I said so attitude.
And I'm going to take this as my opportunity to thank Gorgo and Garrette and the others over in the Politics folder for their excellent points and mostly enjoyable debate, it was fun guys. Thanks.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 06/23/2001 15:24:46 |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2001 : 16:26:36 [Permalink]
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With trolls (I had to look that up), one just considers the source, ignores their comments, and skips to the next post by somebody else. Another ploy would be to completely reverse everything the poor idiot states and show it for its nonsense through parody. The troll might not get it, but everybody else could have a good horselaugh at the horse.... and ROFL****(whatever). However, at my age, I would have a hard time getting up from the floor, so let us try some other tactic than ROFL -- O.K.?
I actually have a tender (motherly) spot for the intellectually challenged who cannot find their way out from the ignorant and stupid ideas which were planted in their brains when they were young. They cannot help their silliness. Because it was bred in, they are trembling with fear about challenging their faith in *Whatever*. They actually think they will be struck down by a bolt of lightning (reminiscent of Thor). They probably think that we are agents of the Devil or something like that. Poor things...
ljbrs
Now how do I get up from the floor? *I fell and I can't get up!*
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2001 : 17:42:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
What if every person on this planet were equally reasonable, rational, brilliant, skeptical, etc., without a *true believer* in the lot?
We would all be bored to death, that's what!
I kind of doubt that the political, financial and economical collapse of our society would be all that boring. The world as we know it needs *stupid* people to work.
One might even argue that it works better then a world without stupid people ever could.
quote:
Even in scientific circles, there is disagreement. How could anybody survive such a conformity without controversy?
People can be resonable, rational and sceptical and hold diffrent opinions at the same time. The would just stop holding onto them after a certain point, (that in some questions may never be reached).
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2001 : 08:06:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
What if every person on this planet were equally reasonable, rational, brilliant, skeptical, etc., without a *true believer* in the lot?
We would all be bored to death, that's what!
While listening to the news on the car radio for the drive to work, there was one snippet of a recent Gallup poll which revealed that 30% of the people surveyed were afraid that Heaven would be boring.
When a "certain group" came to my door to reveal God's plan for a perfect Earth and perfect harmony and perfect everlasting life, my response was "How sad. How very very sad." Don't expect to see them back anytime soon.
(:raig
Rape, Pillage, THEN Burn. [Mongolian Hoards Handbook] |
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yaxxbarl
New Member
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 13:32:46 [Permalink]
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It depends on what kind of nonsense. 'Pure' nonsense of the kind expressed in poetry by Edward Lear or Spike Milligan is quite a vivid outlet for the imagination and is often wildly hilarious.
A case in point is one of Milligan's most well known children's poems that starts
'On the Ning Nang Nong where the cows go bong!'....
Have *you* ever heard a cow go Bong!?
yaxx.
Yaxx. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 13:51:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
I kind of doubt that the political, financial and economical collapse of our society would be all that boring. The world as we know it needs *stupid* people to work.
While you would think this is the way it is, I have met very intelligent people that do everything from wait tables at restaurants to reparing cars. So I can't say that being intelligent means you are not going to work.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 15:26:59 [Permalink]
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Lars_H
quote:
People can be resonable, rational and sceptical and hold diffrent opinions at the same time. The would just stop holding onto them after a certain point, (that in some questions may never be reached).
Very interesting. However, some ideas are better than others and are backed up by solid data. The scientific method has means for studying the cosmos. Logic can take you from one stupid idea to another stupid conclusion and still be irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Some ideas are dead ends.
ljbrs
If the principles were better, the results would be better...
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 15:40:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
While you would think this is the way it is, I have met very intelligent people that do everything from wait tables at restaurants to reparing cars. So I can't say that being intelligent means you are not going to work.
I did not mean that intelligent people would stop working, even if one might argue that many people throughout the world only continue, to endure their position in society, because they belive in some sort of higher justice.
I meant that many institutions work only because of belive. It is not just lotterries and casionos that would have to close overnight. The effects on the entire advertising industrie would be devastating as well.
Without propaganda wars would be impossible killing of the entire defense industrie worldwide. The political system would have to be reorganized with unforseeable consequences.
In the financial world many things only work because people trust in them and belive them to work.
A lot of things in our world can be seen as games of "prisoners dilemma". They only work as well as they do because we trust each other to make the right decision. If we were all skeptics we would not have that trust...
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2001 : 20:44:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
If we were all skeptics we would not have that trust...
Lars_H:
I do not think being a skeptic keeps one from trusting. One can trust in one's own ability to separate good ideas from bad ideas. The trust is there, but it is more of a trust in one's own capability. It necessitates checking things out, of course, but if one has a decent intelligence, that can be half of the fun.
I refuse to paint the world in somber tones. I accept the world the way it is and realize my own limitations.
The world has always had many problems. The news services simply make us daily aware of some of them. I think that the United Nations has kept a lot of local tragedies from becoming worldwide conflagrations.
I do not believe in or expect miracles. However, continuing to prevent world-wide war is a good beginning step. We must keep the rogue nations in control. The nations of the world are, at least, talking to each other...
Now, as a good skeptic, I will keep my fingers crossed and avoid walking under ladders...
ljbrs
Perfection Is a State of Growth... |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2001 : 02:08:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I actually have a tender (motherly) spot for the intellectually challenged who cannot find their way out from the ignorant and stupid ideas which were planted in their brains when they were young.
You should be thankful that there are other people, unlike you, in the world. Let's hope that if you are a parent that you haven't damaged your children with your intolerance of those with "inferior" intelligence.
Think of how you feel when a fundie meets you with the same attitude that you are exuding. Because they hold opposing beliefs does not make them intellectually inferior. We all experience life in our own way and in our own time. Perhaps you should help to enlighten them instead of frightening them off. Try taking yourself a little less seriously. You might find that it improves your outlook of the world and the people in it. 
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2001 : 15:29:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I kind of doubt that the political, financial and economical collapse of our society would be all that boring. The world as we know it needs *stupid* people to work.
[quote]
While you would think this is the way it is, I have met very intelligent people that do everything from wait tables at restaurants to reparing cars. So I can't say that being intelligent means you are not going to work.
Anecdotal counterexamples such as these do not militate against probabalistic claims such as
"lower wage jobs are more likely to be filled by those with lower i.q." In fact, the empirical evidence in favor of a positive salary/i.q. correlation is staggering.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 15:02:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Anecdotal counterexamples such as these do not militate against probabalistic claims such as
"lower wage jobs are more likely to be filled by those with lower i.q." In fact, the empirical evidence in favor of a positive salary/i.q. correlation is staggering.
Ah, but what about the correlation of I.Q. with actual intelligence? Has that been proven? Come to think of it, has the field of psychology come up with an actual theory of intelligence yet? Or even a definiton, barring the circular ones like "Intelligence is the capacity to do well on an I.Q. test". (Believe it or not, that's actually been put forward by a supporter of I.Q. testing as a way of classifying people. I'll dig up the reference when I get home.)
A device which has morphed from its original purpose of promoting better teaching by identifying individual capabilities and deficiencies into just another "something to hang our own superiority on" has sunk pretty low.
BTW, as to the original question, "What if every person on this planet were equally reasonable, rational, brilliant, skeptical, etc., without a *true believer* in the lot?", my gut reaction is the same as it is towards anarchist theories of a world in which everybody voluntarily acts cooperatively for the common good:
I can't even concieve of such a thing. I drive in L.A.
Boris Karloff died for your sins. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 16:43:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
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I actually have a tender (motherly) spot for the intellectually challenged who cannot find their way out from the ignorant and stupid ideas which were planted in their brains when they were young.
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You should be thankful that there are other people, unlike you, in the world. Let's hope that if you are a parent that you haven't damaged your children with your intolerance of those with "inferior" intelligence.
Think of how you feel when a fundie meets you with the same attitude that you are exuding. Because they hold opposing beliefs does not make them intellectually inferior. We all experience life in our own way and in our own time. Perhaps you should help to enlighten them instead of frightening them off. Try taking yourself a little less seriously. You might find that it improves your outlook of the world and the people in it.
Deborah:
Come again???
I think you missed my point entirely. I was talking about poor parental upbringing which is ruinous to the child's development. You have read into it ideas which were simply not there. Maybe you are confused by the differences between the words *ignorant* and *stupid*. I was not demeaning the offspring. I was criticizing the ignorance of the parenting which is transferred to the offspring. Ignorant parents, themselves, are the result of ignorant upbringing by their ignorant parents, but the chain of causation must be broken before such a situation can be remedied. Of course, people who are reared in such an environment might be unable to tell the difference. Therefore, with that in mind and for your information: *ignorance* means *not knowing*, and *stupidity* means *incapability of knowing*. These two words have very different meanings.
Therefore, I will state it again:
*I actually have a tender (motherly) spot for the intellectually challenged who cannot find their way out from the ignorant and stupid ideas which were planted in their brains when they were young.*
I am not about to change my statement and the meaning stands, even if you completely misunderstood it.
ljbrs
Perfection Is a State of Growth... |
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