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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2002 : 01:03:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
How did they know it was the 'first' plane? If it was recorded when it happened, then they couldn't have known it was only the first of multiple attacks at that time.
It could have been a delayed log entry, since there was undoubtedly a lot going on at that time. The person taking logs could have quickly jotted times and events down and then filled in the accurate log during a breather. Generally in cases like that, we provide a footnote that the event was recorded at a later time. This footnote would surely be left out of the CNN quote.
-me. |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 13:11:37 [Permalink]
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I'm sure it was some sort of oversight like that. Either paraphrased poorly or the log was later editted somewhat. Either way, it was sloppy work for CNN to let it ride on the air. If it just popped out at me, you can imagine no shortage of conspiracy nuts that would latch onto a bit of 'evidence' like that.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through. |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 11:04:57 [Permalink]
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I just can't help but beat up CNN, especially Larry King. Tonight: religious leaders commenting on how 'god can help get you through'. Any bets there won't be an athiest in earshot of that interview?
I really had a soft spot for CNN a few years ago, back when they reported news. We had CNN piped into the SCIF I worked in, and it usually beat the intel reports back to us. We used CNN as open source intel to compare to the classified stuff we got. A decent cross-reference.
But how could anyone go to brief a commander now with info gained from the same source that supports psychics, ufologists, and blatently panders to the religious?
I turn on CNN every morning before work (and have since Sept 11th, 2001- never know) and am astounded by the utter LACK of reporting going on. There's more stories about cats stuck on lightpoles than anything of global importance.
I thought Larry King was supposed to be some award winning journalist. He's a hack no better than the guy that hosts Sightings.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through. |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 12:02:14 [Permalink]
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It isn't just a CNN thing. TV programming in general seems to have undergone a descent into marketable credulousness.
Since I left my TV behind when I moved to CA three years ago my exposure is pretty minimal, but even that tiny sampling, well...
Last time I happened to be staying in a hotel I flipped on the History Channel- and they were running a program about the ghosts of Tombstone AZ, complete with the current proprietor of the OK Corral site talking about sighting the ghost of Billy Clanton going into the office there, and someone billed as a historian who was apparently unaware that the celebrated gunfight actually happened in an alleyway near the corral.
Yarrgh. As if the American West hasn't enough genuine history to hold a viewer's interest for an hour without dragging in ghost stories.
Switched to the Discovery Channel and it was "Unexplained Mysteries" in full woowoo mode.
Double yarrgh. I learned from it, though.
On my next vacation I booked a hotel room with no TV and a pretty good Western bookstore next door.
"All things foul and ugly, All creatures short and squat. Putrid, foul and gangrenous, the Lord God made the lot." -Monty Python |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 14:53:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
We shouldn't blame the media. Afterall, it's all about ratings, and we make the ratings.
Public media is a public trust and they have a responsibility to maintain a high degree of integrity and accuracy. We have every right to castigate them when they pawn of nonsense on a gullible public. The media has no more right to commit deliberate fraud than does Sylvia Brown.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 15:10:21 [Permalink]
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The purpose of the corporate media is to sell audiences to advertisers, not disseminate news.
That's why they tend to simply distribute corporate and government handouts, and show a lot of nonsense about actors and sports figures and Princess Di instead of actually trying to figure out what's going on in the world.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 16:50:41 [Permalink]
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I don't believe the media is in the pocket of the fed like you think, Gorgo. It's very opinionated on the government and it's dealings. It's known for jumping on any scrap of scandal like a pack of hyenas and dragging unpopular politicians through the mud.
Look at Clinton and Nixon. The press hated Nixon and stuck to watergate lick white on rice. He was caught with what, 90 FBI files? Clinton got caught with 900 or so and it barely made a blip on the news.
Reagan got beat up pretty well over Iran-Contra, But Slick Willie was directly responsible for the loss of nuclear secrets to the Chinese, not to mention that gargantuan election fund donation from China. Blip.
The press loved Clinton. He didn't really steer the country so much as mugged for photo ops with his sax. So there I can agree with you.
But the press is decidely liberal (faith healers and psychics?) and rejects republican conservatism, so it's tougher then.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through. |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 20:23:32 [Permalink]
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Solly, reread Gorgo's first sentence. "The purpose of the corporate media..." [bold mine] I'd say the notion that any particular corporation is mainly in the business of making money is a safe bet.
And when did faith healers and psychics become distinctly liberal "professions"? Or "stories" about them become liberal news? Would you say the Reagans (astrology?) were liberal?
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume
Edited by - phdreamer on 09/18/2002 20:26:24 |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 21:19:23 [Permalink]
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I'm not arguing that corporate media is out to make money. I am disagreeing with his assertion that it's part of an insideous government scheme. Gorgo has consistantly spouted hackneyed conspiracy dogma on posts all over this BBS. It ALWAYS points back to the big bad government. It just HAS to.
The liberals do not have a monopoly on psuedoscience, I certainly will not argue that point. But the media is considered liberal, and I think the amazing leniency shown to Clinton (a die hard liberal) by the media during his embarrassing tenure shows an obvious bias to prove it.
And I am speaking of the present. The liberal media is currently awash in hokum of all sorts. Larry King is touted as one of the elite of journalists. Yet he openly panders to pet psychics, crop circle believers, and the like.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through. |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 21:48:30 [Permalink]
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I didn't understand that from Gorgo's post. I don't think he was claiming a scheme or conspiracy. Rather, it's simply easier, cheaper, and more efficient for the for-profit media to report only what they're told in press releases. Now, I fully understand this is a generalization and it in no way covers the motivations of the individuals who are employed by the media-corps.
As for Larry King, he may be a liberal, but "elite... journalist"? He's a talk show host, ferchrissake. No one would ever accuse him of being a "truth first" kind of guy.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2002 : 00:15:31 [Permalink]
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Yeah, the press likes scandals and Nixon stepped on some powerful toes, so that stuff doesn't get ignored. Reagan was worshipped by the media, but again, I'm talking about trends, and trends allow for spikes in one direction or the other. Many journalists love to get at the truth, and sometimes that gets through, but you have to remember who owns things. Journalists may be liberal, but they don't own the media and the media is certainly anything but liberal overall.
Nixon wasn't driven out of office for his crimes against humanity, he was driven out of office for covering up a third-rate burglary.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2002 : 01:58:55 [Permalink]
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I wonder which audience the media sponsors prefer.
Those that want accurate news and information or those that believe in psychics, astrology and anything else they see on TV. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2002 : 03:29:08 [Permalink]
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As far as psychics and sports stars and celebrities, that's filler that doesn't cost much. I think everyone wants hard news, but to a certain extent, it's the media that tells audiences what the news is, not the other way around. Many people think that because they watched every second of O.J.'s trial or because they watched Stormin' Norman show pictures of smart bombs, they kept up with current events. How much is the furor over Saddam to keep people from looking too hard at changing laws regarding corporations? Not much, I hope.
That's not to say that all the news is a lie or fluff. It isn't and can't be. I think the audiences with money read the New York Times and Wall Street Journal for their news. It's slanted to the right of course, but if you read beyond the front page you can learn a lot.
60 Minutes is still around, and even though they're far from perfect, this show alone shows that audiences want real stuff.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 10:02:29 [Permalink]
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It's a 'what came first, the chicken or the egg' question. Do so many people believe in stupidity because the media exposes them to it (and when the news is the supplier- it's bound to be taken as fact by alot of folks) that might not otherwise even know of it? Or do they just provided entertainment versions of already held beliefs?
My concern- and yes it is sort of a conspiracy- is that the media seems to be very lopsided in it's presentaion of this hokum. We are bombarded daily by frauds and charlatans from all directions. The skeptic or scientific views aren't well represented in comparison. CNN seems to be really bad with this. Just lately I've seen a bunch of superstition and psuedoscience hyped on the channel with little or no opposition invited. The news has a special responsibility to the truth if it wants to remain a credible source of info. CNN purports to be the leader in news. I'd like to see some integrity from them.
And in the world of journalism, Larry King is a big name. He has a house full of journalism awards. He's considered one of the elite, which is why CNN gives him a primetime hour everyday. So I would expect more from him.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2002 : 03:31:14 [Permalink]
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"A properly functioning system of indoctrination has a variety of tasks. Its primary target are the "stupid and ignorant masses". They must be kept that way; marginalized, and isolated. Ideally, each person should be alone in front of the TV screen watching sports, soap operas, or comedies, deprived of organizational structures that permit individuals lacking resources to discover what they think and believe in, to engage in interaction with others, to formulate their own concerns and programs, and to act to realize them. This hapless multitude are the proper targets of the mass media and a public education system geared to obedience and training in needed skills, including the skill of repeating patriotic slogans on timely occasions."
Noam Chomsky
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 09/26/2002 03:32:08 |
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