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Cosmic string
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2002 : 00:46:42
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Well, just when I though I had seen my fair share of delusion and credulity, I got a mega-dose of it tonight. While watching a movie at my mother's house, her friend started blabbering to her about feeling a "presence." What the hell is a presence? And how would one know if one felt it? Apparently not to be outdone, my mother replied with an old story she has about her own felt "presence." I think you might be amused by what they said:
My mother's friend, Mrs. Williams (I'll write Mrs. W for ease of typing), started talking about a "presence" she felt the other night while in bed. "I was laying on my left side when I felt this kind of pressure on my arm and a presence in the room." She has extensive nerve damage in her right arm and frequently experiences phantom sensations, but apparently thinks that couldn't be the cause. "It wasn't a menacing or unfriendly presence; it was warm and loving. And I just knew it was an animal, like a cat." When she started talking about this, they were in a house with five formerly-stray cats and they were talking about dead pets just before she started talking about this. "By now I was sure it was a stray cat's spirit. I rolled over a little and I felt the pressure on my arm move like a cat staying on top... After a while I felt the pressure go away, but the presence was still there... it departed shortly before I went back to sleep." And now for the reply...
"Did I ever tell you about that presence I would always feel in that house I lived in years ago?" I'm sure she told Mrs. W about this a while back, but apparently these people may be rather slow (I have no mercy for credulity, even in my family). "Well, I had bought this house and I thought it was all new. But once I moved in, I would feel a presence throughout the house." Mrs. W says "well, you never know what's been burried there; the land isn't new." My mother says "no, just wait, let me explain this. It wasn't a hostile or menacing presence, but was friendly." Notice the familiar wording. "I felt the presence everywhere in the house and most of the time. But it was centered on the fire place." How can she tell where its centered? And what does that mean, if anything? "It felt sometimes like it wanted to tell me something." Getting messages in the form of feelings from imaginary friends? Isn't that schizophrenia? "I could never figure out what it was or what it wanted. Then a client of my husband came by the house to pick something up." FYI, her husband at the time was a chiropractor of the most common variety. "He was a cop. He kept telling me he knew he had been in that house before, and I kept saying 'no, it's all new.' And then he saw the fireplace and he said he knew why he knew he'd been there before. He said he had carried a dead body out of the house that stood there from right in front of the fireplace. But that was the same fireplace because when they tore down the old house and build the new one, they left the fireplace standing." Mrs. W says "woah!" My mother continues "Yeah. So then I felt at peace with that spirit. And after a couple weeks from then, it just went away, and I never felt the presence again."
Well, these two clearly have lost touch with reality. A little background on them...
My mother. She's, over the years, been a devotee of tarot, past-lives, channeling, past-lives channeling, phycics, ESP, telekenesis, UFOs, chiropractic, crystal power, aura, hauntings, prayer healing, american indian mythology, psychic dreams, shamanism, applied kinesitology, and all things new age. When I developed a chronic pain disease late in high school, she dragged me to acupuncturists, homeopaths, naturopaths, vitamin nuts (I refused, but eventually she just plain said "take them or I won't take you to the doctors because you clearly don't want to get better"... they ended up giving me bad digestive problems), chiropractors, hypnotists (I was smart enough to conciously fight being hypnotized and to fake it... I caught him repeating himself trying to get a different answer), herbalists, and one quack of all types rolled into one. She even tried to drag me to a faith healer. She took me to an acupuncturist (regardless of my protests) every other week for over six months, always saying "well, just give it a while to work." When I pointed out the sheer idiocy of a homeopath/naturopath she took me to, she told me to shut up and try it. She didn't even care that she made obviously fraudulent claims (like "My staphylcoxin (yes, she doesn't even know the word 'staphylcoccus') pills cured a little girl with an antibiotic-proof staphylcoxin infection over her whole body of the disease entirely in three days"). And she even believed this quack's anti-vaccination lies. She would go to "past-lives counselors," wasting hundreds of dollars per month when she could barely afford basic expenses and had no job. She's been wasting a lot of money lately on bottles of who-knows-what labeled "growth hormone."
Mrs. W. She's completely delusional. She makes life-changing decisions based on stuff that she "just know[s]." She "knows" that when she prays to God He intervenes in everyday life to help her. She "knows" that she is frequently visited by spirits. She "knows" that an Ouija board killed her cousin and brought him back to life. She "knows" that her husband didn't die from a heart disease is because she prayed for him and he prayed for himself, so God granted him a new lease on life. She's always been into and always will be into crystals, vitalism, auras, therapeutic touch, psychics, channelers, Atlantis, prophecies (especially Biblical), faith healing, deconstructionism, psychic surgery, past lives (but she also believes in heaven and hell), hauntings, telekenesis, and almost anything else you can think of. I'd say she's seriously psychologically ill. I guess it figures with her history. As a young girl she was beaten by her father (with weapons). Then her stepfather repeatedly raped her at age 10. There were an unusual number of deaths in the family, including murders, overdoses, and suicides. Her sister was shot nine times with hollow point ammo in a gang drive-by targeting her gang-banger son. Her brother became a crack addict and has been in and out of the hospital as a result, in part from brain damage. Her first husband committed suicide. Her second husband contracted pericarditis, but it eventually went away on its own. Then he got himself shot by police and put in jail for years, where he sits now. All in all, it makes a recipe for credulity and superstition.
“The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.” --Voltaire
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2002 : 11:53:12 [Permalink]
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My brother believes in all things New Age too. He is an "Avatar" master. He can create reality. I don't think he is insane. Just very wrong. There are many reasons why a person might be attracted to the kinds of silly things you describe.
I suggest, if you want to know more about why people believe such things, you read "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer.
I also recommend reading "Secrets of the Supernatural" by Joe Nickell. He has probably investigated more hauntings than any skeptic alive.
You might want to take a look at my Evil Skeptic report on this site at:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/articles/showquestion.asp?faq=2&fldAuto=26
There, I describe some of the weird stuff some members of my family believe, including my brother.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2002 : 09:41:13 [Permalink]
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It's apparent that "presence" is one of those terms nebulous enough to lend itself to superstitious mumbo-jumbo, much the same as "soul," "spirit," "aura," and the like.
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2002 : 10:41:30 [Permalink]
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Hey, the vast majority of my relatives and ancestors were, and still are Mennonites. Definetly not new age, but I'd say there are divergent as well. No one ever said religion, or psuedo-religions were the most stable of thought process.
My mother falls for alot of consumer related garbage. Like homeopathic products. I'm constantly trying to get her to stop wasting money on stupid products that only work in your mind. She spent a couple hundred on magnetic braclets until I showed her the magnets weren't even strong enough to penetrate a couple sheets of paper, much less skin.
I went to an Army chiropractor (yes, more of your tax dollars) and was reffered to another when I retired. I injured my legs really badly and my back is suffering as well as compensating for a limp.
I have this to say: I did indeed fell relief after a good popping. The Army guy (actually a contracted civilian in an army hospital) simply took x-rays, determined (quite obviously) that I had issues. No superstition, no hokum. Also, no healing. Exactly like cracking your knuckles, you get very temporary relief, the pain always comes back. It's a treatment, not a cure. Not even a very effective treatment considering I hurt again within a couple hours anyway.
As for the second chiro; I never got past the front door. The office also housed not one, but two 'energy healers'. An acupunturist has an office next door. Enough said...
Be your own god!
(First, and only, commandment of Sollyism)
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2002 : 14:23:56 [Permalink]
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Feel a "presense"? Sounds like a lively imagination coupled with a lot of wishful thinking.
Sort of like the creaks and popping noise a house makes. Dwell on and convince yourself there's an intruder in the house, and suddenly the bathrobe hanging on the door looks like something from "Nightmare on Elm Street".
Yeah, my mom got into the magnetic bracelet stuff too. Since Dad and I knew she only had a couple of months to live, and she claimed it helped with the pain, we wisely kept our yaps shut. She was usually a sensible woman, but I guess the pain and the fact she was dying made her a little desperate.
(edited to add the bit about my mom)
We have enough youth. We need a fountain of smart.
Edited by - Lisa on 08/13/2002 14:27:08 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 01:24:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Since Dad and I knew she only had a couple of months to live, and she claimed it helped with the pain, we wisely kept our yaps shut. She was usually a sensible woman, but I guess the pain and the fact she was dying made her a little desperate.
Sorry about your mom Lisa but that was a kind thing you and your dad did for her. Since she was otherwise sensible, she probably knew somethings would not work but that's right, in desperation we cling to what we can. I'm not so sure I wouldn't too.
And who knows, maybe it did help the pain. Our minds can do all kinds of tricks. Self hypnosis or whatever.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 01:27:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's apparent that "presence" is one of those terms nebulous enough to lend itself to superstitious mumbo-jumbo, much the same as "soul," "spirit," "aura," and the like.
Na ah! Presence are good things, you get them on xmas and your birthday. It's a fun thing.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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