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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2002 : 00:47:08
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My mother remarked to me the other day that for an atheist I know more about religion then most Christians she knew. I thought that was probably true as I did not just buy into the Bible Stories I was told in Sunday School as a child. Over the years I have listened with what I think is an open mind to all points of view from Christian of all denominations, to Eastern Philosophies. Muslim, Hindu etc...
I feel as skeptics we do have the greatest amount of Religous Knowledge because we most of did search not only to find something to answer the question of what is the meaning of the universe and our place in it and to defend our opinions against zealous members of any religous faith. A charecter in a movie once said "never trust a true believer" because the reasoning went they will say or do anything to prove themselves right and others wrong.
I agree with that sentiment and believe knowledge is power. The more I know the more I can defend myself. In the end though I find this sad as I don't ever ask anyone that believes to prove their point (because esentially they can't) yet I am asked to defend my opinion all the time. In medicine unfortunatley religion is often intermixed. Science meets Mythology all the time.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission!
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2002 : 01:14:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
In medicine unfortunatley religion is often intermixed. Science meets Mythology all the time.
You are probably right, ever since I've been on the Internet and been meeting other freethinker/atheists, I've found that they do know a lot more about religion than those who say they are religious. They do like to debate. I didn't think of it as defending themselves though.
If someone were to ask about my beliefs, 1st of all I wouldn't feel like I had to try to defend them and then not being very verbal, I couldn't anyway. I'd just say, you have your opinion, I have mine. Believers are not going to change because of anything any one person says to them. IMO
But I wanted to really comment on your medicine remark.
The most recent doctor I started seeing and the last few, I called the office, interviewed either the doctor and or the staff. To see if their ideas, knowledge and service would be something that would be comfortable for me. I ask about religious preference. It happened that the doctor answered the phone when I called to inquire and she said she was not religious. That did it for me.
I'm sure you also know that there are doctors who are not faith based but are logical in their practice. Perhaps it's a matter of geography but out here I've been able to find people I can deal with.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2002 : 06:23:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
My mother remarked to me the other day that for an atheist I know more about religion then most Christians she knew.
...
I feel as skeptics we do have the greatest amount of Religous Knowledge because ...
I definitely agree. Atheists and free thinkers just seem to be more inquisitive. Truth is not limited to doctrine, it is limited by reason and the facts/evidence.
I found the following bible quiz interesting. Though its questions are basically on verses that are probably never used in church. I watched a couple of christian friends, who claim to know a great deal about the bibles contents, score less than 40 %
http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html
Dan Barker's book Losing Faith in Faith actually allowed me to turn the corner from doubtful christian to atheist. Though it is a simple book about his de-conversion. His underlying enthusiasm for knowledge and understanding was contagious.
Enjoy the quiz.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2002 : 07:34:34 [Permalink]
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Atheists are atheists for many reasons, and not a good sign of what they know or what they don't know. I'm sure that atheists can be just as ignorant of the bible as theists.
It seems as though some people think that because they're atheists, that makes them skeptics. I don't think that's the case. We've been through that one before. Certainly theists claim to be skeptics as well.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2002 : 19:37:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Atheists are atheists for many reasons, and not a good sign of what they know or what they don't know. I'm sure that atheists can be just as ignorant of the bible as theists.
It seems as though some people think that because they're atheists, that makes them skeptics.
Good point. I am guilty of making a generalization based solely on a limited number of personal observations in support of Dr Shari's comments.
Though I think it would be interesting, and I may be the only one, to see whether a stronger relationship exists between skepticism and atheism or skepticism and any form of theism.
Employing the definition for "What is a skeptic?" from this site I suspect the former, but only from the stand point of consistent employment of methods.
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DVF
Skeptic Friend
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 06:39:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
I definitely agree. Atheists and free thinkers just seem to be more inquisitive.
Or is it that inquisutive, skeptical people are more likely to become atheists/agnostics? I have noticed that while you may not find that atheists are necessarily skeptics, you will find that the majority of skeptics lean towards atheism. I state this as opinion for thought and discussion, not verifiable fact.
My reasoning is simple. A person may become an atheist, or merely call themselves an atheist, for any variety of reasons. There is nothing inherent in not beleiving in one particular form of nonsense that precludes beleiving in another. Skeptics, on the other hand, insist on evaluating all claims on a basis of the evidence. Theism fails when evaluated in this way.
"Know what, if you were in a building, and it was on fire, I'd rescue you."
- My Son 3/5/2002 |
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Cosmic string
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 11:18:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I definitely agree. Atheists and free thinkers just seem to be more inquisitive.
Or is it that inquisutive, skeptical people are more likely to become atheists/agnostics? I have noticed that while you may not find that atheists are necessarily skeptics, you will find that the majority of skeptics lean towards atheism.
Skeptics, on the other hand, insist on evaluating all claims on a basis of the evidence. Theism fails when evaluated in this way.
I agree, DVF. Atheism does not cause skepticism. But skepticism almost definitely leads to atheistic agnosticism or atheism (I suppose agnostic deism might work, too) because no religion has made any substantiated claims that would even hint at the remote possibility of a god or gods (that interacts with our universe and thus has some relevance to reality). That is, a true skeptic would reach one of these conclusions, not a "skeptic," who still has "sacred cows."
“The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.” --Voltaire
{Edited to add a qualification to the "no substantiated claims" statement}
Edited by - Cosmic String on 08/15/2002 11:21:01 |
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Yuquiyu
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 17:04:29 [Permalink]
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Skeptics just want to know more about religion in order to search weaknesses and destroy their opponents in bloody debates!
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 18:55:38 [Permalink]
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I suspect the reason skeptics tend to know more about religion than religious people is because they ask more questions and aren't afraid of the answers. The University of North Carolina recently tried to include a book about Islam as part of it's required reading list. A group of Christians sued claiming that this requirement violated their religious freedom. The State Senate quickly jumped on the bandwagon and the requirement has been dropped (some times I am just so proud to be from this state  ). Can you imagine a skeptic objecting to reading a book about Islam as part of a general curriculum designed to broaden a student's awareness of other cultures and ways of thinking?
This fear of learning is, I suspect, rooted in their fear of doubt. I suspect that most religious people doubt their faith from time to time. But they fear doubt since they have been taught from a young age that doubt is sin or moral weakness. The easiest way to avoid doubt is to avoid any of the troubling ideas that might engender it.
However, I also suspect that in most religious people there is a rational mind struggling to get out. On some level, they fully understand that skepticism with it's simple demand for proof is a better way to understand the universe than blind faith in some religious screed. This schism generally leads to one of 4 responses among the faithful. The first is to reject faith altogether.
The second is to divide the world into a spiritual component and a physical component. Religion is retained to deal only with spiritual matters and is held to be true in a spiritual sense even while most Biblical stories are acknowledged to be mythological. This is probably the least harmful form of faith since it still allows a person to respect science and to interact in a functional way with the real world.
The second response is to try to fit science to religious dogmas. These are the young earth creationists, the geocentrist, and on the far fringe, the flat earthers. This version of faith can be rather amusing in terms of the remarkable mental gymnastics otherwise intelligent people will engage in to try to hammer the square peg of reality into the round hole of their theology. However, it quickly looses it's charm when they begin trying to insert their "science" into school text books and curriculums.
The last response is to reject science and skepticism entirely and to retreat completely into the twisted fantasy of extreamist fundamentalism. In the process, one must reject rationality entirely. Such people are capable of almost anything in the name of their faith. These people are not amusing on any level and are in fact down right scary.
Edited by - espritch on 08/15/2002 19:00:30 |
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Yuquiyu
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 22:41:42 [Permalink]
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Espritch, you are such a fun spoiler! 
But you are correct, curiosity and a desire to know the truth, to know why and not getting satisfaction with little or incomplete information. And cures all that religious ideas and spiritual crap! We deserve better!
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Yuquiyu
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 22:55:36 [Permalink]
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 I meant curse all religious ideas! Dame, 1:49in the morning and I start getting a little fuzzy and dizzy.
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 21:22:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Espritch, you are such a fun spoiler!
I have spoiled the fun? Excellent! My work here as a skeptic is done.
quote:
Dame, 1:49in the morning and I start getting a little fuzzy and dizzy.
Hmmm...I think medical science has a cure for that. It's called "going to bed".
P.S. I actually liked your previous remark about skeptics and bloody debates, but I had recently been involved in bloody debate with some Geocentrists over at the BABB and, as a result, I was feeling in a "soap box rant" kind of mood.
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Yuquiyu
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 21:47:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
I was feeling in a "soap box rant" kind of mood.
Very understandable!
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