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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 06/29/2001 : 17:56:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
If these extreme anti-technology people are indeed getting disproportionate press coverage, it sounds like someone is setting them up as the 'straw man'.
Most environmentalists that I know (including myself) are only calling for responsible treatment of the environment. Most critics of the WTO and IMF point to problems in 'underdeveloped' countries and suggest new ways of doing business. These are important issues to be discussed in public forum. A bunch of hippy wannabees, without a clear philosophy get publicity. Go figure!
Greg.
OK. A few things here.
1) The squeeky, bad behaviored wheel gets on the 6 o'clock news. Extreme negative behavior tends to get a lot of press.
2) I am against the WTO and expansion of the WTO specifically to China because I don't believe China will abide by the strictures of the treaty. Historically, they haven't why should they this time.
3) Environmentally, it seems the President of the US (note I didn't say MY President. I didn't vote for the SOB.) may use the endangered species list as a check list. (got that one. wiped that sucker out.) (only a slight exaggeration.)
4) After taking office, the suit ordering a breakup of Microsoft gets "overturned". Hmmmm. I wonder.
5) President George Bush saying those who oppose the WTO are "against free trade". Yeah, let's insult the peaceful demonstrators and environmentalists instead of listening to their concerns.
(stepping off soapbox)
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 20:39:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
1) The squeeky, bad behaviored wheel gets on the 6 o'clock news. Extreme negative behavior tends to get a lot of press.
Most definitely!
quote:
2) I am against the WTO and expansion of the WTO specifically to China because I don't believe China will abide by the strictures of the treaty. Historically, they haven't why should they this time.
Sounds reasonable.
quote:
3) Environmentally, it seems the President of the US (note I didn't say MY President. I didn't vote for the SOB.) may use the endangered species list as a check list. (got that one. wiped that sucker out.) (only a slight exaggeration.)
Slight? It's called hyperbole, and it's not very nice.
quote:
4) After taking office, the suit ordering a breakup of Microsoft gets "overturned". Hmmmm. I wonder.
Arrrgghh! If you knew any of the details of the case, you would not make such a ridiculous connection! W's administration had nothing to do with this. The overturning is completely justified and explained in the ruling. Microsoft is not off the hook, the only thing that happened was the Penfield Jackson screwed up big time, so they have to start over. This is completely fair and just, and in no way raises suspicion of foul play, except in Bush-bashers.
quote:
5) President George Bush saying those who oppose the WTO are "against free trade". Yeah, let's insult the peaceful demonstrators and environmentalists instead of listening to their concerns.
Peaceful?! Tell that to Seattle and London! And they are against free trade!!!
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Gambatte kudasai!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 06/29/2001 20:40:21 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 20:52:23 [Permalink]
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Yes. Peaceful demonstrators. And all but a few Luddites and extreme anarchists are against free trade.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 04:27:59 [Permalink]
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This is something I posted in another place that may help explain why so many people are against the US.
Why is US bashing so common.
1. Many yanks think that their country is the world's greatest democracy, this is a myth.
2. The US has a very high amount of religious fundies, there aren't anywhere near as many in Europe and most other western countries, and they have no where near as much power.
3. The US has the CIA.
4. In the US the citizens don't have much power, government is being taken over by corporations.
5. The US often uses its power at the expense of other nations.
6. Many yanks think that anyone who says anything bad about the US is anti-american and the anti-christ.
7. The US has lower standards of living then most other western countries, yet yanks act like the US is the best place to live.
Need I go on, or do you now understand anti-american ideology?
Also very few of us say that our countries are perfect, just that they are better places to live then the US.
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 13:50:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Need I go on, or do you now understand anti-american ideology?
I now understand that alot of people are outright biggoted and have horrible misconceptions about alot of things in the U.S.
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 14:42:56 [Permalink]
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All of those are good points but #1 and #7 have to be a couple that really piss people off. I roll my eyes any time I hear an American go into the old "America is the greatest thing since chocolate cake" line of rhetoric. I think a lot of Americans need to get out of the country more and see for themselves that the rest of the world is not dirt poor and that other cultures are not inferior, just different. Ugh, I hate that attitude!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 17:07:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
I now understand that alot of people are outright biggoted and have horrible misconceptions about alot of things in the U.S.
Well at least they have some kind of conceptions about Americans; not something you can accuse Americans of to have of most of the rest of the world in return.
Much of the "Anti-American Bias" comes from the way Americans represent themselves.
When you get your idea about what is American, from Hollywood and other sources that either are aimed at the lowest common dominator, or tend to show the extremes of the society, it is easy to get an "Anti-American Ideology".
Edited by - Lars_H on 06/30/2001 17:09:00 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 22:45:05 [Permalink]
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"...only in cultures with a deeply totalitarian strain do we find such notions as "anti-Soviet" or "anti-American," applied to the miscreants who see something other than righteousness and benevolence in the actions of their noble leaders; imagine the reaction to a book on "anti-Italianism" in Milan or Rome, or any society with a functioning democratic culture".
- Noam Chomsky
quote:
quote:
I now understand that alot of people are outright biggoted and have horrible misconceptions about alot of things in the U.S.
Well at least they have some kind of conceptions about Americans; not something you can accuse Americans of to have of most of the rest of the world in return.
Much of the "Anti-American Bias" comes from the way Americans represent themselves.
When you get your idea about what is American, from Hollywood and other sources that either are aimed at the lowest common dominator, or tend to show the extremes of the society, it is easy to get an "Anti-American Ideology".
Edited by - Lars_H on 06/30/2001 17:09:00
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 03:38:01 [Permalink]
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Poverty level :
United States 17.1%
Canada 12.6
United Kingdom 9.7
Switzerland 8.5
Germany 5.6
Sweden 5.3
Norway 5.2
Children under the poverty level:
United States 22.4%
Canada 15.5
United Kingdom 9.3
Switzerland 7.8
Sweden 5.0
Germany 4.9
Norway 4.8
Look which country is at the top.
Percent of people who believe their health care system needs fundamental change:
United States 60%
Sweden 58
United Kingdom 52
Japan 47
Netherlands 46
France 42
Canada 38
This next one might be interesting
Average hours spent watching TV per day:
Japan 9:12
United States 7:00
Canada 3:24
United Kingdom 3:10
Germany 2:13
Sweden 2:00
Finland 2:00
Denmark 1:54
Netherlands 1:42
Switzerland 1:34
And this:
News as a percent of all TV programming:
Denmark 43%
Sweden 35
Canada 32
Netherlands 25
Germany 20
United Kingdom 17
Japan 6
United States 2
And about freedom:
The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom.):
Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32
The United Nation's Human Freedom Index compares the amount of freedom that citizens of different countries enjoy. It considers the right to travel, assemble, and speak; the absence of forced labor, torture and other extreme legal punishment (such as the death penalty); freedom of political opposition, the press and trade unions; an independent judiciary; gender equality; and the legal right to trial, counsel of choice, privacy, religion and sexual practice.
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 04:08:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
United States 60%
Sweden 58
United Kingdom 52
Japan 47
Netherlands 46
France 42
Canada 38
Can't argue with that. Isn't the US the only country on that list without universal healthcare? It's funny when we hear that there is plenty of cash to build a 60 billion dollar missle defense system that doesn't even work(!) yet finding a way to provide healthcare for everyone is simply too expensive to contemplate. Go figure.
quote:
Average hours spent watching TV per day:
Japan 9:12
United States 7:00
Canada 3:24
United Kingdom 3:10
Germany 2:13
Sweden 2:00
Finland 2:00
Denmark 1:54
Netherlands 1:42
Switzerland 1:34
Ah, but have you seen the production values from television shows in some of those countries? It's no wonder that entertainment is one of the US's biggest export. Someday Indonesia will have its own Hee Ha, till then they can watch ours 
quote:
The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom.):
Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32
I see Australia blows the US away as long as the list is alphabetical 
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 05:17:31 [Permalink]
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Actually there are other countries without Universal healthcare, although even those tend to have a higher percentage of people in health care.
quote:
The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom.):
Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32
I see Australia blows the US away as long as the list is alphabetical.
They are equal, although Australia has been following US policies too closly for my liking.
As I often say, I don't consider where I live to be perfect, and could think of a heap of reasons why its not. The reason I bought that up was to show that the US is not the most free country on the planet.
One thing I should have bought up earlier is about free trade.
Why is it so good/bad?
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 06:07:31 [Permalink]
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I am assuming that capital punishment must play some part in that rating. Some day the rest of the world may impose sanctions on the US for being so barbaric. Considering the way the US has tried to impose its morality elsewhere, that would be very fair.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 06:48:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Some day the rest of the world may impose sanctions on the US for being so barbaric. Considering the way the US has tried to impose its morality elsewhere, that would be very fair.
The problem is that the USA at the moment is so powerful that they basically can get away with everything. Other Countries don't dare to do anything other then sending a protest note because they would shoot themselves into their own feet with sanctions.
Do you think any other country could get away with things like ignoring the Vienna Convention and a world court ruling and instead go ahead and execute a man?
addendum:
Here is another statistic you might be interested in:
Number of people executed in 2000:
1. China ~1000
2. Saudi-Arabia 123
3. USA 85
4. Iran 75
Among the 7 remaining countries in the world who still execute child offenders after 1990 the US is even number one with 14 executions.
Edited by - Lars_H on 07/01/2001 07:14:33 |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 11:05:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Number of people executed in 2000:
1. China ~1000
2. Saudi-Arabia 123
3. USA 85
4. Iran 75
Among the 7 remaining countries in the world who still execute child offenders after 1990 the US is even number one with 14 executions.
In all this, I'd say that's a good thing we execute child offenders. I wonder what the other countries(besides the seven who still kill them) do to child offenders. Put them in jail?
"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not." -Master Yoda |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2001 : 11:46:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Isn't the US the only country on that list without universal healthcare? It's funny when we hear that there is plenty of cash to build a 60 billion dollar missle defense system that doesn't even work(!) yet finding a way to provide healthcare for everyone is simply too expensive to contemplate. Go figure.
Is expense the only reason? I didn't think it was. Canada and England are awful proud of their "free" health care (oxy-moron). But it's kinda funny that the political figures in Canada usually come down to the U.S. when they need health care like surgery. Have you heard how long one has to wait in those countries to see a doctor? And I've heard the quality of their health care is sub-par because of governmental control.
What I don't understand is why there isn't a free basic healthcare center in every town and city. The 'poor' in this country (especially blacks, for some reason) seem to rush their kids to the emergency room for every little cut and scrape, which ends up costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they had a local free clinic equipped to handle minor injuries, it'd probably cost a lot less in the long run.
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Gambatte kudasai!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 07/01/2001 11:48:25 |
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