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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 09/27/2002 : 04:26:24 [Permalink]
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Yes. My bad. Millions died in Southeast Asia during all the hostilities that the U.S. was involved in. I do not know how many the U.S. is responsible for, nor does anyone really. Millions may or may not be a good number, I don't know. Hundreds of thousands, certainly. Doesn't matter, it was a crime. Were those the U.S. attacked a little testy? Yes, I'd say that they were. Did the U.S. involvement help to make Viet Nam more democratic or less democratic? I'd say that war makes things less democratic.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 09/27/2002 04:39:42 |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2002 : 05:35:14 [Permalink]
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An important point that doesn't appear to have been met by previous posts on this topic is:
WHY NOW?
Bush Sr et al (i include John Major here) left the despot alone in '91, he's been violating UN resolutions each and every day since. If we put our rifles down (I'm looking at you Solly) and pause for thought, then the answer is really quite apparent.....
BECAUSE BIN LADEN IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND
If Bin Liner had been neutralised during the (IMO) justified attack on Afg. we would not even be debating this issue! He (S.H.) would be free to keep violating resolutions and his own people until we in the western world could be bothered to stop him properly. We should have given him a good cuffing in '91 and kicked the piss out of him then, not making thinly veiled excuses to attack today!!
With regard to the "Don't diss the U.S." comments made by our man in the trenches (I'm looking at you again Solly) Isn't that what free speech is all about.............. ooooh I can sense a "what the fuck did you do to maintain freedom etc" coming. Let me tell you what I and (I suspect) most of the non-military posters did.......
PAID OUR FUCKING TAXES TO COVER THE COSTS OF YOU GUYS GOING ON MANOEUVRES IN THE CARRIBEAN (or numerous other exotic locations)FOR 95% OF YOUR MILITARY LIFE. Don't bitch about being sent to military zones every few decades, that's why you joined up, i aint ever heard a fireman bleat about being sent to extinguish a fire, so that facet of your arguement is both ad hominem and irrelevant. We all "do our bit" one way or another.
I believe in nothing; only my scepticism kept me from being an atheist.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2002 : 05:44:37 [Permalink]
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Also want to add there was nothing democratic or nice about anything the U.S. or the French did in Southeast Asia either, while we're talking about how nasty the Vietnamese were. The French starved out a million or two during WWII. I'd say their treatment would cause some people to want to stop being attacked by outsiders.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2002 : 07:29:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Let me tell you what I and (I suspect) most of the non-military posters did.......
PAID OUR FUCKING TAXES TO COVER THE COSTS OF YOU GUYS GOING ON MANOEUVRES IN THE CARRIBEAN (or numerous other exotic locations)FOR 95% OF YOUR MILITARY LIFE. Don't bitch about being sent to military zones every few decades, that's why you joined up, i aint ever heard a fireman bleat about being sent to extinguish a fire, so that facet of your arguement is both ad hominem and irrelevant. We all "do our bit" one way or another.
Well said welshdean!
Good points!
The "Osama is dead" claims might be a trick to lure him out, but the big thing is still:
Dubya can't find him!
Might be a stain on his resume...
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2002 : 09:56:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
PAID OUR FUCKING TAXES TO COVER THE COSTS OF YOU GUYS GOING ON MANOEUVRES IN THE CARRIBEAN (or numerous other exotic locations)FOR 95% OF YOUR MILITARY LIFE
--Yeah sure. I've never been anywhere you would accept a million dollars to go to. The nicest place I ever went was Israel, where we weren't allowed out because the threat of terrorism targetting Americans was too high. I lived in a hanger for 2 months.
I've handed out food and helped sick people in places you coun't find on a map. Helped map out mass graves in villages with names you couldn't pronounce. If it's such a fucking vacation, why weren't YOU signing up for the cruise? You're full of shit.
quote:
Bush Sr et al (i include John Major here) left the despot alone in '91, he's been violating UN resolutions each and every day since. If we put our rifles down (I'm looking at you Solly) and pause for thought, then the answer is really quite apparent.....
BECAUSE BIN LADEN IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND
--A new conspiracy theory is born. You have some proof of this claim, correct? Hey, I heard NASA killed it's own astronauts, maybe Bush worked for them too, huh?
Speculation and conspiracy. Great platform.
Consider Iraq a completely seperate issue if you like. The fact is he has always been (with decades of wars) a threat at least locally, and considering the the global impact of WMD, to the entire world. Whether he has a working WMD system now or in 5 years matters not.
quote:
We all "do our bit" one way or another
--yeah you keep thinking that. You enjoy rights for no more reason than your daddy didn't use a rubber.
It's like welfare to you- someone OWES you freedom. Paying taxes means you are a consumer. Nothing more. Taxes paid on toilet paper and beer don't equate to doing a damn thing for this country.
I paid taxes too, higher in areas around bases because the civilians liked to gouge the prices. Filling up a tank of gas isn't defending rights, it isn't anything.
It's a common conceit of pampered civilians that by merely existing they are somehow contributing anything to the freedoms they enjoy.
quote:
Might be a stain on his resume
--and what resume might that be? What position of global domination is he going to be submitting this body of work for? He can only be president (which is for all intents and purposes, the most powerful man in the world) for 8 years max. What other president in the history of the US has ever gone on to wield MORE global influence after he left office?
But it's an interesting new chapter in the "Bush taking over the world" conspiracy. Run with it.
Bleed for me, I've bled for you. Embrace me child, I'll see you through.
Edited by - The SollyLama on 09/29/2002 10:00:11 |
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