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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
 Posted - 10/12/2002 : 01:46:06 [Permalink]
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Oh but the English were in 'Nam. The reason we never took out any of the north's port cities is because there was a constant stream of English ships resupplying the Communists. Those of us on the ground thought that if the English were in the north then they were fair game. Washington wouldn't hear of it. So there's something else for you to boast about-your side won.
What????!!!!!!! methinks a conspiracy may be brewing!
This is the part where American's try very hard not to burst out laughing at the English stereotype. "How I won the war…"
This is where we Brits sit quietly and think of the lies portrayed to the MTV generation in films such as "U571", "Saving Private Ryan", etc. I thought you were more intelligent than that. Solely for your edification I shall set the records straight:
1) WE found the Enigma machine.
2) WE cracked the Enigma code.
3) WE landed on the CORRECT beaches in Normandy.
4) WE developed the early radar system in operation during WWII.
5) WE were in it from the start.
6) Aside from point 5, I've listed THE KEY TURNING POINTS of WWII. And the US did...........mmmmmmmmmm, hold on I'm thinking.......mmmmmmmmmmm OH YES, they sold silk stockings and bananas in Coventry!!
That reminds me, how's your QUEEN? Is your QUEEN doing well? And the rest of the ROYAL family, are they in good health? What about all those good folk in the House of LORDS, those DUKES and EARLS and all of NOBELITY, are they feeling okay? That's some fine tuning you guys have done to Democracy
WHAT??? your ignorance is overwhelming, The Queen does not legislate in any conceivable way, the closest she comes to passing laws is a 10min address to the nation at3pm Dec 25th. As for the house of Lords, they are a second tier of government that is, strictly speaking, superfluous.
When I was going to school in Cork and in New York they were teaching a somewhat different story about how the English behaved in America. [sarcasm] We do owe you guy's our Bill of Rights though. Without the "civilized" behavior of the English we would have never felt the need to spell them out [/sarcasm].
...And this is in response to me stating that "we took that democratic model with us" A most excellent counter..... incidentally remind me how YOU (the average white American) behaved to the black American right up to the 70's. People in glass houses....
Is the Queen still the head of the Church of England?
And this relates to democracy how?????? Incidentally she is. Is Pat Robertson still the head of the 700 club. my last question has as much relevance as yours, absolutely none.
Except in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland where they oft times lack the ballot papers to actually count.
When? I am from Wales, (hence Welshdean) I can state, without any fear of reprisal, that you have most definately got yourself a little mixed up. I attained voting age 16 years ago, I have never missed an election of any type in that time. Where did you get this nonsense from. Maybe you're clutching at straws or maybe you're still reeling from that fiasco in Florida. Bush wasn't voted in by the populace of the U.S. He was FORCED on the population and has been fucking up your country; and the World's opinion of your country since.
So you're not writing this from Protestant Belfast or Derry, I take it.
For fuck's sake. Did your Mum drop you on your head. It's the idiotic fundamentalist fathers of the children of Ulster that are killing people, not the children. The same fathers that are funded by the people of the good 'ol U.S. of A. We wouldn't be blighted by the pestilence of paramilitary (terrorist) organisations if you guys stopped funding them! The average kid in Ireland would tell you "I wouldn't take any drug named after a part of my arse" let alone take the stuff to sell at school. Please try and be a little bit factual in your counter arguements, try and refrain from spouting the usual yank rhetoric that we hear from misinformed fools almost on a daily basis.
We win, you're outta here!!!
There, there. Be good little boys and we'll buy you some sweets.
Ok you got me there, that is a little childish!!!!
I believe in nothing; only my scepticism kept me from being an atheist.
Edited by - welshdean on 10/12/2002 01:48:58Text
Edited by - welshdean on 10/12/2002 01:51:07
Edited by - welshdean on 10/12/2002 01:51:53
Edited by - welshdean on 10/12/2002 01:54:01 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 09:44:12 [Permalink]
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Kilquote:
I do wish Bush would convince me that a unilateral military attack on Iraq is of the utmost importance at this time. Problem is, I don't trust the messenger. I'm not worried about some great conspiracy to do a dastardly thing. Saddam is a prick. Everyone is in agreement on this. What worries me is that Bush may have a hard-on for him and it has clouded what ever ability (limited) he has to reason things out.
Slaterquote:
That would be the CIA and British Intelligence. For all the things you can say against Bush, and there are many, he is playing this one by the rule -book
I would have also quoted Solly's response to my post about my concerns here, but he seems incapable of responding without adding insults and such. I also hate to feed Gorgo's paranoia. They are flip sides of the same coin....
quote:
CIA Feels Heat on Iraq Data
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By GREG MILLER and BOB DROGIN
TIMES STAFF WRITERS
October 11 2002
WASHINGTON -- Senior Bush administration officials are pressuring CIA analysts to tailor their assessments of the Iraqi threat to help build a case against Saddam Hussein, intelligence and congressional sources said.
The complete article can be viewed at:
http://www.latimes.com/la-na-cia11oct11,0,2360915.story
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 10:00:39 [Permalink]
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And what do I have a paranoia about? About people calling me nuts and telling me that I have a paranoia? About people who can't stick to the subject at hand without resorting to stupid attacks?
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 10/12/2002 10:18:10 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 12:10:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Slater, you insulted my Queen, and you insulted me. At least with the Queen, we can't make as many complaints as you do as your head of state, because she is doing a good job of it.
How did I insult Lizzie? I asked about her health.
I do wonder, however, what class of fine tuning a democracy has to have to wind up with a Queen? Good thing she's doing a good job (just what is it she does again?) because there is no way to democratically vote her out of office.
And if you, sir, are a Scot then she is not your Queen. She is the Queen of the country which invaded your homeland.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 18:45:01 [Permalink]
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Leave it to a woman to inject civility into a heated discussion. I almost had to verify I had selected 'Dissolve the UN' topic, because all I have read are a bunch of posts of young 'men' displaying attempts, poor at best, of superiority over each other. Now boys, let's be nice and have some real discussion.
I think that some of you are very limited in your understanding of the United Nations. Do you really think they are ineffective and serve no real purpose? When is the last time you educated yourself with all that they are involved with around the world? I dare to say that you probably haven't ventured outside what you have been hearing on tv or reading in the papers.
Edited by - Deborah on 10/12/2002 19:38:38 |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 18:55:33 [Permalink]
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If you had been to the commonwealth lately, you would notice that she is giving hope to those who have none, and is currently celebrating her 50th anniversary on the throne, and I am Canadian, but have visited Scotland and noticed that they love her almost as much as the English do. She has helped charities, kept civil war off, and when she visits countries, it boosts economies and, just makes people happy. She is a figurehead, someone everyone can look up to, and until the monarchy is dissolved or Charles takes the throne, I have no problem with it.
Either Peace or War- Motto of Clan Gunn of Scotland |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2002 : 00:08:13 [Permalink]
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What????!!!!!!! methinks a conspiracy may be brewing!
No conspiracy. Just the United States honoring it's commitment to it "ally" England as England stuck a knife in it's back.
1) WE found the Enigma machine. Fat lot of good it did you.
2) WE cracked the Enigma code. See above
3) WE landed on the CORRECT beaches in Normandy.
Actually on D-day the English landed on a beach so far from the one they had intended to fight on they were in a different country.
In that famous speech that Churchill gave to tell everyone to fight to the end, that it was hopeless, that you were about to be over run by the Nazis but go down fighting…he said "we will fight them on the beaches…" and then went on to name locations further inland.
Those beaches he was referring to were English beaches.
The United States hauled your arse out of the fire. The United States kept you from being conquered. The United States invaded Europe and let you come with them.
4) WE developed the early radar system in operation during WWII.
The USN had working radar in Hawaii in 1938, which they had invented independently, and it scanned as opposed to your BBC fixed system.
5) WE were in it from the start. Would that "start" be when you said give Hitler Poland and said he'll be happy and leave us alone?
6) Aside from point 5, I've listed THE KEY TURNING POINTS of WWII. And the US did...........mmmmmmmmmm, hold on I'm thinking.......mmmmmmmmmmm OH YES, they sold silk stockings and bananas in Coventry!!
And I thought Monty Python was funny.
WHAT??? your ignorance is overwhelming, The Queen does not legislate in any conceivable way, the closest she comes to passing laws is a 10min address to the nation at3pm Dec 25th. As for the house of Lords, they are a second tier of government that is, strictly speaking, superfluous.
I see the Queens one of the richest people on the planet because you pay her to be a figurehead. That's quite a number of Euros to pay to someone to be better than you. You complain because the Gore /Bush election was too close to be clear, but it's just peachy with you that the Queen is the Queen without benefit of election at all.
And you have a house of Nobles, but they don't do that much.
That would be "fine tuning Democracy" alright…if this were the fifteenth century.
incidentally remind me how YOU (the average white American) behaved to the black American right up to the 70's. People in glass houses.... A hell of a lot better than you did to the black South Africans, the black Indians or the lily white Irish Catholics.
And this relates to democracy how?????? Incidentally she is. Is Pat Robertson still the head of the 700 club. my last question has as much relevance as yours, absolutely none.
Pat is not the head of state. Lizzy was not elected but rules by divine right.
I am from Wales, (hence Welshdean) I can state, without any fear of reprisal, that you have most definately got yourself a little mixed up. I attained voting age 16 years ago, I have never missed an election of any type in that time. Where did you get this nonsense from.
Let me know when you get to vote on Welsh independence.
It's the idiotic fundamentalist fathers of the children of Ulster that are killing people, not the children. The same fathers that are funded by the people of the good 'ol U.S. of A.
If you think that the troubles in Ireland are based on religion as Whitehall claims you are more naive than even I thought.
We wouldn't be blighted by the pestilence of paramilitary (terrorist) organisations if you guys stopped funding them!
You wouldn't be blighted by paramilitary at all if you didn't blight them with military storm troopers. When you invade a country and persecute the locals you can't expect them to welcome it. What did Churchill say in that "beach" speech? "We will never surrender," or something to the effect.
Well if you guys were never going to surrender to the Nazis then you can't complain that the Irish have never surrendered to you.
Now where did I put my checkbook? How many "N's" are there in Sinn Fein.
By the way it's easy enough to stop the "pestilence", just go home.
You've got no business looking down your nose at any country let alone the one that saved you from the Nazis.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 03:09:00 [Permalink]
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1) WE found the Enigma machine. Fat lot of good it did you.
Well, I suppose you're correct there! The benefit was felt more on your side of the Atlantic as the finding and deciphering of Enigma stopped the German U-boat fleet from sinking AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF American ships and drowning American Seamen. Once again, Robin helping Batman!!!!
2) WE cracked the Enigma code. See above
See above.
4) WE developed the early radar system in operation during WWII.
The USN had working radar in Hawaii in 1938, which they had invented independently, and it scanned as opposed to your BBC fixed system.
Like I said, WE DEVELOPED THE EARLY RADAR SYSTEM IN OPERATION DURING WWII. In effect we were using VHS and you guys were trying to get Betamax to work!!
5) WE were in it from the start. Would that "start" be when you said give Hitler Poland and said he'll be happy and leave us alone?
It is precisely because the Nazi's invaded Poland that we went to war. Although I appreciate that you responded in this way to provoke a response – congrats – you have one. Incidentally, we responded to an attack on another democracy, we did not cower in a quiet little corner hoping the bigger boys would go away. Regardless of when you consider the start to be, we were there from day 1 !!!!!!!
6) Aside from point 5, I've listed THE KEY TURNING POINTS of WWII. And the US did...........mmmmmmmmmm, hold on I'm thinking.......mmmmmmmmmmm OH YES, they sold silk stockings and bananas in Coventry!!
And I thought Monty Python was funny.
Thank you. I shall accept this accolade with open arms.
WHAT??? your ignorance is overwhelming, The Queen does not legislate in any conceivable way, the closest she comes to passing laws is a 10min address to the nation at3pm Dec 25th. As for the house of Lords, they are a second tier of government that is, strictly speaking, superfluous.
I see the Queens one of the richest people on the planet because you pay her to be a figurehead. That's quite a number of Euros to pay to someone to be better than you. You complain because the Gore /Bush election was too close to be clear, but it's just peachy with you that the Queen is the Queen without benefit of election at all.
And you have a house of Nobles, but they don't do that much.
That would be "fine tuning Democracy" alright…if this were the fifteenth century.
Bill Gates is one of (if not THE) richest men in the world, he does not legislate in your government. Nor does our queen. They are equal in terms of both wealth and legislative power. Please listen and learn before you shoot yourself in the foot again.
Euro's are the currency of continental EU member states not the UK. How many peso's do you get paid.
The Bush / Gore (now theres a dynamic duo, ne'er mind Batman & Robin) election too close to call!!!!!!!!! The numbers were fudged and a new election should have been called, WE BOTH KNOW THAT.
incidentally remind me how YOU (the average white American) behaved to the black American right up to the 70's. People in glass houses.... A hell of a lot better than you did to the black South Africans, the black Indians or the lily white Irish Catholics.
Ok if you won't answer the question I'll ask a typical black American……….anyone know Rod King's Tel No.
My answer was intended as a response to your ludicrous assertion that “we had no democracy in UK. You then turned it into a question of how we behaved in the states. Remember this one point, We have to go back 2 generations for India, and to the beginning of your history to witness intolerance on the part of the Brits. I am old enough to remember the intolerance that YOU guys enjoyed in the sixties and seventies. Not withstanding todays INCREASING Klan membership base!!!!!!!!
And this relates to democracy how?????? Incidentally she is. Is Pat Robertson still the head of the 700 club. my last question has as much relevance as yours, absolu |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 11:49:59 [Permalink]
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The benefit was felt more on your side of the Atlantic as the finding and deciphering of Enigma stopped the German U-boat fleet from sinking AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF American ships and drowning American Seamen. Once again, Robin helping Batman!!!!
American ships and American seamen who were risking their American lives to keep England supplied so that it wouldn't collapse.
Like I said, WE DEVELOPED THE EARLY RADAR SYSTEM IN OPERATION DURING WWII. In effect we were using VHS and you guys were trying to get Betamax to work!!
But we did get it to work. And that is why you guys are using a decendent of the radar we developed, as is the rest of the world, as opposed to your home grown one.
Incidentally, we responded to an attack on another democracy, we did not cower in a quiet little corner hoping the bigger boys would go away.
It's a funny thing about Europeans, they complain that the USA shouldn't stick it's nose in anybody else's business and complain that they didn't stick it in early enough--sometimes in the same breath.
OH YES, they sold silk stockings and bananas in Coventry!!
And I thought Monty Python was funny.
Thank you. I shall accept this accolade with open arms.
That's good. I'm glade I didn't make the joke about the number of middle aged mulattos in Coventry these days.
Bill Gates is one of (if not THE) richest men in the world, he does not legislate in your government. Nor does our queen.
Why is it that you think you have carte blanche to attack any American politician you please but that old German bat with the assumed name of Windsor can't be mentioned.
They are equal in terms of both wealth and legislative power. Please listen and learn before you shoot yourself in the foot again.
Listen Spunky, you were the one who boasted about a fine tuned democracy. You've got a parody of a democratic system.
Euro's are the currency of continental EU member states not the UK. How many peso's do you get paid.
So you joined the EU but their money isn't good enough for you. Yeah, this EU is gonna last….HA!
Ok if you won't answer the question I'll ask a typical black American……….anyone know Rod King's Tel No.
That's your idea of a "typical black American"? A criminal with a rap sheet as long as your arm?! What a bigot you are.
I am old enough to remember the intolerance that YOU guys enjoyed in the sixties and seventies. Not withstanding todays INCREASING Klan membership base!!!!!!!!
And I've spend enough time in London to know that you're a hypocrite.
I think even you now know that the Queen is only a figurehead, an ambassador if you like.
She gets paid on the order of Bill Gates. You bow to her and call her "your majesty." Even you know true democracies have neither royalty nor nobility.
Why would we want Welsh Independence?
If you don't know then there is no way I could tell you, you are beyond hope.
The English pulled out of Ulster 3years ago, the waring factions (protestant/catholics) decided to fight on the streets for power. The english went back in solely to keep some semblence of order.
The English started the "fight on the streets" and used them as an excuse to continue their occupation of Ireland. It's their standard operating procedure.
This topic is far too emotive our side and littered with anomolous disinformation on your side of the pond for us to debate properly. You are only privvy to the fund-raising propaganda that you get from CNN.
I suggest we drop this one too.
Actually I get my dis-information on the subject straight from Dublin. I suggest that if you want to hear what is really going on that you switch off the BBC.
Before you make any more attacks on me or the UK, please try and address the points I originally made.
I addressed every last one, or can't you read the Queen's English? I'll bet you can't read Welsh.
Remember DEBATE |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 20:33:54 [Permalink]
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Do you recognize a pissing contest when you see one? Deborah does....
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 03:11:54 [Permalink]
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Actually, Slater and WelshDean, I think you'll find my Dad is bigger than both of yours, so there!
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily." |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 03:19:40 [Permalink]
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Guess I don't get an answer to my question. Guess the object of this board is to make ridiculous assertions and then walk away.
quote:
Do you recognize a pissing contest when you see one? Deborah does....
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 19:24:01 [Permalink]
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Well my country is so much better than...wait a second, wasn't this about the UN, not who's democracy is more dysfunctional than who's?
The UN does alot for international relations, even if its directives aren't always followed. Ever heard of UNICEF? Now THERES a program we could all do without! the average american shouldn't have to care about poor little starving children in their country, let alone the rest of the world!
Yeah right
'So what much of the world is going though a massive famine, and people are dying by the thousands a day. I'm too interested in who Madonna slept with to care about those "skinnies"!'
Well we are all human, just because entertainers make millions of dollars for a few months work and baseball players make multi million dollar salaries for standing there and scratching themselves.
Here's a thought, all athletes and entertainers that make more than 2 million a year should be forced to donate a quarter of that to charaties such as UNICEF or any of the numemerous ones to help famine.
Democracy is never perfect, but it sure beats dictatorship!
Either Peace or War- Motto of Clan Gunn of Scotland |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 19:47:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Do you recognize a pissing contest when you see one? Deborah does....
Nice to see you Kil...how are you!
"I no longer need to punish, deceive or compromise myself. Unless, of course, I want to stay employed."
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