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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 11/26/2002 : 14:53:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Monk
You're right. Many people won't look past the headlines to understand the situation.
How come after the Oklahoma City bombing we all didn't suddenly get real suspicious of white Christians from upstate New York? I'm sure Timothy McVie was an accurate representation of them all.
Um, I did. As a matter of fact, made it a point to find out what fundy white supremeist militant groups were in my area. Especially considering that crowd tends to have a hard-on against the government, and I was active duty at the time. The fundy xians almost make me more nervous than the fundy muslims. For one thing, the fundy xians don't need to weasle around passport and visa requirements, they're here. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:44:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Dancer, what do you base your claim that this has nothing to do with main stream Islam on? It's a claim I hear everyday, since every day (it seems) more and more innocent people are being murdered by Islam. Yesterday it was school children blown up on a bus, today commuters with burning tires on their necks.
I base it off of the practice of mainstream Islam that doesn't make it to the headlines. Such as the US muslims and Turkish muslims who denounced terror attacks. Also it is based on the interpretation I have of the Qu'ran by reading it.
Almost every day, extremists grab headlines by killing innocents (expressly forbidden by the Qu'ran). Headlines don't mention the millions of Muslims in Turkey who go through life without killing anyone based on some charismatic leader's interpretation of Islam.
I do so hope you aren't going to spout some right-wing "Islam is an inherently violent religion" bullshit straight from Falwell.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:53:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Espritch
Stories from today's Charlotte Observer:
Page 1: “Attacks claim 12 more lives”
quote:
Security forces ended the siege Monday of two Hindu temples by Islamic militants in India-controlled Kashmir. At least 12 people were killed, and at least 50 others were injured. … A separatist Islamic insurgency has killed more than 61,000 people since 1989.
Page 2: “Hundreds flee city's violence over pagent” – The death toll is up to 200. Police have been ordered to shoot rioters on sight.
Page 4: “Westerners still a terrorist target, authorities day” – Investigation of the Bali bombing revels that the terrorist network there is more extensive than originally thought.
quote:
A major fear is that the attackers will throw a grenade into a church, as happened in Islamabad, Packistan, in April, or set off bombs in the Christmass season, as they did here two years ago.
Page 4: “Saudi case raises red flag – Lawmakers talk tough about royal family's waffling on extremism”
Page 4: “Mourners pack chapel for slain American missionary”
Page 5: “Soldiers, officers killed in Algeria”
quote:
An Algerian militant group suspected of ties to Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaida killed nine soldiers and four police officers in violent clashes east of Algiers … were the latest bloodshed in a 10-year Islamic insurgency that has taken more than 120,000 lives.
Page 5: “French police arrest militants” – More Algerian Islamic militants arrested in France.
Not trying to make any simplistic generalizations here – just reading the paper.
From the Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/community/archive_story.asp?intID=37505142&zone=vpa
From a press release 9 September, 2002 which was largely ignored by the press. (Too busy reporting death and gloom)
http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp
Note the signatories from around the globe.
From Around the Globe (32):
Tariq Ramadan University of Fribourg
Suleman Dangor University of Durban-Westville, Durban, South Africa
Najah Kadhim International Forum for Islamic Dialogue, London
Fatma Bostan Unsal Justice and Development (AK) Party, Turkey
Shaikh Kabir Helminski The Mevlevi Order, The Threshold Society
Nor Azurah Zakaria Sisters-in-Islam Forum Malaysia
Ahmed Abdalla Islam Online, Egypt
S. Abdallah Schleifer Adham Center, American University in Cairo
Tawfiq Alsaif Centre for Study of Democracy, London, UK
Amina Rasul Magbassa Kita Foundation, Philippines
Aftab Mack AMAL press (UK)
Arwa Hassan Transparency International, Berlin, Germany
Hajj Muhammad Legenhausen Qom, Iran
Randy Fermo Moro Committee, Philippines Solidarity Committee
Hassan Shi Aga Khan University
Abdelhamid Lotfi Mohammed V University, Rabat - Morocco
Mokhtar Benabdallaoui University of Hassan II - Morocco
Rachid Tlemçani Institute of political Science, Algiers, Algeria
Cherno M.Jallow Civil Affairs Officer, UNAMSIL, Sierra Leone
Haytham Mouzahem Al-Mustaqbal newspaper, Beirut-Lebanon
Allan Ismail Allieds Interpreters, Amman, Jordan
Hassan Saeed Hussain Editor, Aafathis Newspaper, Rep. of Maldives |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 12:11:50 [Permalink]
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I have to add my voice to those objecting to this unbalanced "Islam is so much worse than Christianity" thread. I could easily pick through the news and post a list of atrocities committed by westerners and leave out the Islamic atrocities but I have neither the time nor the inclination. The news is full of attacks here in America against Muslims just because they're Muslims. I'm all for rooting for the home team but when cheating occurs I like the refs to call it on both teams and not favor one over the other. Give guys like Falwell and Robertson a chance and we'll be making Saudi Arabia look progressive. We could live in a repressive Christian dictorship within a couple elections if that's how the people vote. I'm sad to say that that is exactly what people voted for in America last election and it's not going to be long before the administration starts taking advantage.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 21:49:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
From the Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/community/archive_story.asp?intID=37505142&zone=vpa
From a press release 9 September, 2002 which was largely ignored by the press. (Too busy reporting death and gloom)
http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp
Also on the first anniversary of September 11, NPR carried a story about a mosque in London that marked the anniversary by holding what the organizers billed as the "only celebration of September 11 in the western world". Festivities included speeches by clerics on the "good" achieved by the 9/11 attack. This was the same mosque where the so called 13'th hijacker got his religious indoctrination. Their stated goal is to bring down the west and establish Islamic fundamentalist government throughout the entire world. If they succeed, people like you and me will be lucky if we are just beheaded. So which version of Islam is the real one? |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 21:57:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
So which version of Islam is the real one?
I think this shows that this is perhaps not an ordinary mosque:
quote:
This was the same mosque where the so called 13'th hijacker got his religious indoctrination.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:18:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
So which version of Islam is the real one?
They are both the real one. Islam hasn't cornered the market on religious fanaticism. Show me a religious fundamentalist and I'll show you a dangerous person. I don't care what the religion is. Islam has it's moderates. So does Christianity.
As hard as it may be, we need to deal with the current problem without resorting to bigotry. If we give in to bigotry, we will hand the fundamentalists a victory by demonstrating the correctness of their assertions about us. We will become what they are.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:39:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
I have to add my voice to those objecting to this unbalanced "Islam is so much worse than Christianity" thread.
Weird.
I just looked over the thread again, maybe I missed it, but not a single person is saying anything of the sort.
Why in the world would one get the impression that people pointing out the insanity of one religion are somehow saying that another is "better"?
quote:
we need to deal with the current problem without resorting to bigotry
Please explain why the idea of "bigotry" even entered into the discussion here? |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 10:51:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Espritch
quote:
From the Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/community/archive_story.asp?intID=37505142&zone=vpa
From a press release 9 September, 2002 which was largely ignored by the press. (Too busy reporting death and gloom)
http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp
Also on the first anniversary of September 11, NPR carried a story about a mosque in London that marked the anniversary by holding what the organizers billed as the "only celebration of September 11 in the western world". Festivities included speeches by clerics on the "good" achieved by the 9/11 attack. This was the same mosque where the so called 13'th hijacker got his religious indoctrination. Their stated goal is to bring down the west and establish Islamic fundamentalist government throughout the entire world. If they succeed, people like you and me will be lucky if we are just beheaded. So which version of Islam is the real one?
And this is a typical mosque, how?
Fanaticism is always a minority. It is invalid to characterise the doctorine of a religion based on the actions of fanatics of that religion.
If the fanatics succeed, then yes, we will be lucky if we are only beheaded. This is not the case in the majority of mosques and Islamically run countries. Places like Turkey where interfaith conflict has ceased since becoming a republic. Religious sects must be judged against their own religious document when determining if it is mainstream or not. The mosque in question celebrates people who violated the tenets of Islam. (The Qu'ran forbids the killing of innocents and suicide) Therefore, it is not indicative of the majority of practioners. This is bourne out by the post 9/11 condemnation of terrorism by the grat majority of Muslim Imams throught the US and the world (excluding terrorist strongholds).
Instead of engaging in the logical fallacy of rash generalization, perhaps you could soften the "Islam is an inherently violent, kill the infidel religion" bullshit view. I hear enough of that from Falwell.
Whenever one is dealing with religious fundamentalist fanatics, there tends to be violence. Every major religion (and quite a few minor ones) have violent fundamentalists lead by a charismatic leader that pervert the teachings of the respective religious documents to their own xenophobic ends. |
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