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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:33:48
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I once heard a very interesting quote. It is, in fact, the very subject of this post. "There is no such thing as an Atheist in a foxhole."
I'd be willing to put money on the fact that in a desperate situation, one in which a man most certainly knew he was about to die, there is no such thing as a person who doesn't pray to god to let them live. Just stop and think about it. All you people, especially those who have chosen, and I do respect that choice completely, not to believe in a god...... Can you honestly say that if you were about to die you wouldn't sneak in a quick prayer, that you would just sit back and say "Oh well, there's no hope for me now."
I'm generally interested in seeing how many people deny that they would pray, at least to someone or something, in such a situation.
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--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:43:32 [Permalink]
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If I was about to die, I'd pray to God and to Allah, and just to cover the bases, Mithra, Ahura Mazda, Zeus, Bhudda, and Ghandi. And if any one of them answered my prayer, I'd be so stunned, I'd probably die of shock.
Just out of curiosity, are you arguing that because people in desperate circumstances often turn to religion, that makes religion valid? |
| Edited by - Espritch on 11/27/2002 22:44:56 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:45:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
Can you honestly say that if you were about to die you wouldn't sneak in a quick prayer, that you would just sit back and say "Oh well, there's no hope for me now."
I can quite honestly say of course I wouldn't. I can't imagine why you would think otherwise. Known many atheists in foxholes before they died? |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 22:52:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just out of curiosity, are you arguing that because people in desperate circumstances often turn to religion, that makes religion valid?
To answer your curious question... No.
I have a belief in god because of every humans need to feel that there is some higher power, but I don't believe in religion at all. Contradictory, depends how you look at it. Religion is just a way of governing ones beliefs.
What I am arguing is that even if a person were in dire straits and probably about to die some horrible death, but they decided to pray to, like it has already been said, every single deity just to cover the bases, and they were miraculously saved, wouldn't that make even the strongest skeptic believe just a little bit? Or is that just chance. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 23:09:18 [Permalink]
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Been in combat, have had the gun pointing at my face with the trigger being pulled...I was much too busy to worry about stupid fairy tales.
Let me try to explain this to you as simply as I can. We Atheists don't actually believe in your god. We don't think in our heart of hearts that he is actually real, not even a little. We don't hate god, but turn to him when we are frightened. We really and truely, honest injun, completely and totally, not even a smiggin' think that god is anything other than a silly story.
On the other hand I couldn't help but notice from their peeing in their pants and the running away and leaveing the rest of us high and dry, that those --of my acquaintance--who had a "personal relationship with Jesus" were yellow bellied cowards. Maybe that's why they felt that they had to pray so much to their invisible friend.
There are many Vets who are Atheists, so I would watch saying that "foxhole" crap in front of them. It is highly insulting, and if you do it in person instead of on the web you are putting yourslf in peril. |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 23:43:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have a belief in god because of every humans need to feel that there is some higher power
Why would every human need to feel that there is some higher power, and how do you know what every human feels? Are you omniscient? If not, then the only person's needs that you know with certainty are your own. |
| Edited by - Espritch on 11/27/2002 23:45:38 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 23:44:10 [Permalink]
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Gee whiz, Pascal's Wager again? Gimmee a break. I think "true believers" consider this is true because of their own lack of conviction and they assume atheists are just as shallow as they are? Or don't you like the taste of that?
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 23:54:50 [Permalink]
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> I have a belief in god because of every humans need to feel that
> there is some higher power,
Speak for yourself.
> What I am arguing is that even if a person were in dire straits and
> probably about to die some horrible death, but they decided to pray
> to, like it has already been said, every single deity just to cover
> the bases, and they were miraculously saved, wouldn't that make even
> the strongest skeptic believe just a little bit? Or is that just
> chance.
Then the strongest skeptic may be engaging in the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy.
> We really and truely, honest injun, completely and totally, not even
> a smiggin' think that god is anything other than a silly story.
Well said. |
Antie. DIES GAUDII.
Facies Fabulosarum Feminarum
If you can name all six of the females in the picture above without looking up their names, and you can read the Latin phrase, pat yourself on the back. You're smart. |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 01:33:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'd be willing to put money on the fact that in a desperate situation, one in which a man most certainly knew he was about to die, there is no such thing as a person who doesn't pray to god to let them live.
I'm afraid you'd lose yer shirt on that bet!! If you'd taken the time to read around the various posts on this BB, then you would have realised that;
a) We don't drink in them kinda bars!
b) You were wasting your time and electricity posting this thread!
Nice to see a new fundie face, i just hope you ain't an "under the bridge dweller" |
"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 03:23:56 [Permalink]
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That atheist & foxhole saw dates to WW-II, if I'm not mistaken. T'wan't true then, t'ain't true now. Ducking shrapnel increased my belief in shrapnel, not in some invisible force that insisted I take as read something another mere human told me, with zero evidence to back the claim, and sorry 'bout the run-on sentence.
But, Brothers and Sisters, I BELIEVE in shrapnel.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 10:19:35 [Permalink]
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| Kevin, you are crazy. I know you are just doing this to get Ideas for your essay. |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 10:40:54 [Permalink]
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Shhhh, shut up Geoff, don't tell anyone. I actually find it quite fascinating.
quote:
I'm afraid you'd lose yer shirt on that bet!
And with regards to the bet, maybe I would lose my shirt, and every other article of clothing for that matter, but we aren't playing strip atheism here. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 11:11:49 [Permalink]
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| Kevin, You should read How we Believe by Michael Shermer. It is enlightning both for the believer and the non-believer, and gives some psychological and historical reasons for why we believe in an all powerful diety. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 12:35:50 [Permalink]
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Once, while running as fast as I could across a clearing that had been made by napalm, I stepped on what I thought was a burnt log.
My foot broke through and the ribs clamped down on my ankle like a bear trap. It was a human torso. I stopped running to hop around on one foot trying to shake the grisly thing off even though I was under fire.
In no way does combat remotely suggest the existence of a god of love. It is a place where you lose your faith, not gain it. |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 15:32:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
Can you honestly say that if you were about to die you wouldn't sneak in a quick prayer ?
Implies giving up. Your god receives far too much credit and not enough of the blame. Your god is clearly malevolent.
To Slater and others a simple and sincere Thank You. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 11/28/2002 16:21:27 |
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