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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2002 : 06:04:22
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I found this by acident, but I thought that a few of y'all might be interested. This guy Glenn kinda pissed me off.
http://www.aliensonearth.com/human/skeptic/
quote:
Instead of sitting in front of his TV making acerbic remarks, the skeptic could go out and try to accomplish something. Rather than shooting down falsehoods and alienating people, he could be working with others toward some common goal, like improving the conditions in his neighborhood or controlling the world population
Man, I don't watch much TV, and I do volunteer my skills for help in the community. Plus, I only alienate those people that I don't like--I hope!
Sounds like Glenn's got a little chip on his shoulder.
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Edited by - Tim on 12/02/2002 06:07:24
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 06:39:36 [Permalink]
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One of the most common (and most annoying) mistakes that people make. He is describing a cynic, not a skeptic.
By the way, "shooting down falsehoods" is something I consider very important, and a very worthwhile endeavor. |
| Edited by - Tokyodreamer on 12/02/2002 06:41:10 |
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Terryt88
Skeptic Friend
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 07:54:03 [Permalink]
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Yeah this guy is a real idiot.
I don't even have cable.  |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 15:44:26 [Permalink]
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| Kindof reminds me of that book from the '70s, "The Arrogance of Humanism." I don't remember the author's name right now.... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 15:53:46 [Permalink]
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He calls himself a recovering skeptic but isn't that like saying your are recovering from thinking?
I also want to finish his sentence for him:
The trouble with Skeptics is that they expose my lies.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 00:31:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't even have cable.
Ha Ha Terry.....I have cable and soon a pirate Direct TV system.
I may have a religion based belief system but this guy couldn't be farther from the truth. Eventhough we disagree on the possibility of an infinite creator, I think it is absurd to label skeptics as useless. From what I can tell the general public on this board does their part. But whatever.....you can't please 100% of the people, 100% of the time. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 03:28:21 [Permalink]
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Touche' Atomic. I had a good chuckle.
And, thanks phalcon...“As you think in your heart, so are you.” Proverbs 23:7 |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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| Edited by - Tim on 12/03/2002 03:29:54 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 05:19:15 [Permalink]
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The toob plays a very small part in my life. Gots no cable, gots no dish, and want neither. There's a couple of shows I watch regularly, and PBS, and that's about it. Most tv is crap, and this clown's idea that skeptics are addicted to it also crap.
Gotta go now. A Springer re-run is coming on! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 09:17:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
He calls himself a recovering skeptic but isn't that like saying your are recovering from thinking?
Wow, this guy is a j@ck@ss. Skeptics don't neccessarily think that by stating their own opionion they are going to change to view of every person who reads it. That's why they call them opinions, and last time I checked everyone has opinions on things, so what's wrong with stating them.
And as for skeptics alienating people, I don't know about other people, but I certainly have never alienated anyone with my beliefs or opinions. While true I do think that there are some stupid people that I know, I would never try to force my beliefs on someone, especially in a way that would hurt or degrade them. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Infamous
Skeptic Friend
85 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 08:21:25 [Permalink]
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| Well, the problem with many skeptics I've known is that often, when "shooting down falsehoods", they can *seem* quite antagonistic to the average believer (who generally goes around paranormal forums looking for some kind of support group). The source of this problem isn't really the skeptic (or the believer, for that matter), but many skeptics need to realize that when a believer tries to find some kind of support, and finds only that his opinions are being shot down, he often takes it as an insult. Then the believer will often get angry and even more irrational. At the same time, believers need to realize that there is always the possibility that their beliefs may be wrong, and that these "skeptical jerks" who are "insulting" them may only be trying to show them the truth. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 10:49:39 [Permalink]
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The problem, Infamous, is the web vs. normal conversation.
On the SFN Wednesday night Chat sessions there is a give and take of conversation. But these boards are better suited to debate. Each of us gets our say and then steps down. And since the raison d'etre here is Skepticism one must assume that it will be the guiding force in these debates. Much like a specific Faith would be if you went to Xian boards.
In normal conversation (except in Hawaii I've found) people will not ask what your beliefs are. In polite company one does not evangelize. If you do say that you believe in the paranormal or some god or other, the polite thing to do is for others to let this pass without comment.
But that is normal conversation…and this is not. This is an arena for debate. If you have a sacred cow of a topic that you do not wish to be a topic of debate then, by all means, don't put it in the arena. Because if you do bring it up it is unrealistic to expect it to go unchallenged.
We get people here all the time who want to talk about religion. They just want to tell you what they believe and why you should believe the same thing they do. They have gotten used to the idea that they will go unchallenged, no matter what they say. They have also gotten used to the idea that Atheism is a negative concept, if not down right evil. And that they're speaking out against it is a very positive thing to do.
When they find these ideas challenged; when they find that some Atheists consider their beliefs to be evil, they get very upset. They consider that respect for their belief system is their right (even though they do not extend this same right to those with other views) It comes as a shock to find that what they took as a right is only a privilege. A privilege which is suspended during debate.
This is a hard web site to find. It isn't in the top ten. Which means that it has to have some effort put into finding it. It also makes no bones about being devoted to Skepticism. There's big bold type at the top of each page to let you know it's a skeptic site. So if a believer goes to all the trouble of finding this place and then complains that the people here aren't believers you have to wonder what they were thinking. And if their reason for coming here wasn't just to put up an opposition to Skepticism.
Many come just to throw insults and will make only one or two posts before they run for it.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 10:52:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Infamous
Well, the problem with many skeptics I've known is that often, when "shooting down falsehoods", they can *seem* quite antagonistic to the average believer (who generally goes around paranormal forums looking for some kind of support group). The source of this problem isn't really the skeptic (or the believer, for that matter), but many skeptics need to realize that when a believer tries to find some kind of support, and finds only that his opinions are being shot down, he often takes it as an insult. Then the believer will often get angry and even more irrational. At the same time, believers need to realize that there is always the possibility that their beliefs may be wrong, and that these "skeptical jerks" who are "insulting" them may only be trying to show them the truth.
You bring up an excellent point, but as something of a skeptic, I'll tell you what I see more often than not. Debating the scientific merits of a super- or paranormal topic is acceptable, even enjoyable at times. Usually, the dialogue will remain productive until the believer or proponent suggests that some or other evidence that is either not demonstrable, not observable, not repeatable, whatever, should be strongly considered. At that point, I tend to throw up my proverbial hands because any frame-of-reference that we may have been able to use to understand each other is gone bye-bye. This is the difficult bridge to cross and this is the point at which the foundation - that we can trust, for whatever reason, the interpretations of what people believe they see or hear - that supports the entire belief system is under seige.
The scientific method can't support the inclusion of unsubstantiated anecdotes as evidence that must be considered, as it would quickly become a hopelessly bloated bureaucracy. Until para/supernatural proponents understand this, many dialogues are bound to end up in animosity. |
I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 11:54:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
For example, you may or may not believe that Jesus was the son of God, but you cannot say that Christianity is worthless. It provides a value system (like the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule) and a theory of enforcement (Heaven and Hell) that allow some people to live in harmony. If you effectively debunk that belief system, it not clear that the ex-Christians would become better people. They could simple say, "There is no God watching me now, so I can do whatever I want."
I can quite say Christianity is worthless.
Yes, the most of the Ten Commandments are okay, but you shouldn't have to fear God not to become a serial killer. You should have to fear the people around you, and the legal system, and your own conscenece.
If the number of christians that attend church was equal to the ones that follow their own commandments, the world would be a much better place |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 13:42:11 [Permalink]
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I think Christianity is utterly worthless. Even it's moral code makes no sense. In one place you have "thou shalt not kill" but there are all sorts of references to reasons where killing is OK and even encouraged. The right wing in the US seems obsessed with going to war and killing. Christians have the best moral code ever. It can be discarded when it's in the way and referred to as being so much better than an anarchy that sounds good on paper but isn't thought out very well. There were laws and morals before Chrisitianity and right now there are non-Christian nations and societies that are more peaceful than the Christian societies which cast into doubt everything Christians cling to in terms of morality.
Now, you can say "that's what I mean. Skeptics are always anatgonizing/challenging" but that's exactly what skepticism is about: Challenging conventionally held beliefs. It's hardly surprising that theone's holding these beliefs will have a problem with that. No one likes to be shown how their dearest beliefs are a totally, 100% wrong.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 16:41:21 [Permalink]
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They wonder why we hate evangelists, and preachers?
someone should you don't "reach" to people by yelling at them and telling them they are doing everything in their life the wrong way. These preachers make millions of dollars off the unsuspecting people, for sweating profusely and screaming.
I want to join the one where you get to whack people on the head and scream "JESUS will HEAL you"
that would be fun |
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Terryt88
Skeptic Friend
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 20:20:32 [Permalink]
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I want to join the one where you get to whack people on the head and scream "JESUS will HEAL you"
I think that's "JEE-ZUS" in proper evangelical pronunciation. 
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