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 Iroquois Confederacy and It's Influence on U.S.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2001 :  19:55:40  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message

Greg
Skeptic Friend

USA
281 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2001 :  20:46:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Greg an AOL message Send Greg a Private Message
FYI

"There is not a man in the ministry of the Five Nations who has gained his office, otherwise than by merit. Their authority is only the esteem of the people, and ceases the moment that esteem is lost." - Lt. Gov. Colden of NY (1727). Sounds like US Constitutional theory to me.

"It would be a strange thing if six nations of ignorant savages should be capable of forming a scheme for such a union and be able to execute it in such a manner as that it has subsisted ages and appears insoluble; and yet that a like union should be impracticable for ten or a dozen English colonies." - Benjamin Franklin (1754) in hs plea for the passage of the Albany Plan of Union. In addition, Franklin spent much time among the Iroquois. I doubt he hung with Rousseau. Jefferson and Payne also knew about the Five (Six) Nations.

I also stated in my argument that it was one of the models that the US form of government was based upon and gave the European philosophers the credit due to them. My argument was, and is that the Iroquois confederacy meant much more to the founding fathers thoughts while framing the Constitution than the Mayflower Compact. Yet the Mayflower compact (a footnote to history) is taught to everyone while the Iroquois are ignored.

Regards,

Greg.

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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2001 :  21:03:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
Ah, we're going to discuss the Virginia and New Jersey Plans tomorrow. We had a test tonight, so I kinda didn't get a good chance to really discuss it with him (there were other students waiting to talk to him also). I'll mention the point about why the Mayflower Contract seems to be taught, while the Iroquois connection is not, and get his input.

(This probably isn't necessary, but just in case, so you know, I'm not actually arguing anything. I'm just relating communications.)

------------

Gambatte kudasai!

Edited by - tokyodreamer on 07/06/2001 07:59:28
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend

USA
431 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2001 :  21:06:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Zandermann an AOL message Send Zandermann a Private Message
quote:
Oh, and for anyone who knows, did Aboriginal Americans have written text?


I seem to recall that some did...let me chase down a reference or two and get back on this.

quote:
By the way, I forgot who asked, but I found out where it was that Mr. Simmons first voted, where he had to take a 'literacy' test, and pay a poll tax. It was in Gadsden, Alabama.


That was me...thanks...It enrages me still.

Edited by - Zandermann on 07/02/2001 21:11:11
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2001 :  21:15:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
quote:

That was me...thanks...It enrages me still.


No problem. It was very disgusting to me as well. Also disturbing was that as I looked around the room while Mr. Simmons was relating his story, most people (black and white) were obviously not paying attention, or looking disgusted that he was keeping us so close to the time the class ended.

------------

Gambatte kudasai!
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doctor prawn
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2001 :  10:08:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send doctor prawn a Private Message
>Oh, and for anyone who knows, did Aboriginal Americans have written text?

The only pre-Columbian Aboriginal American written texts which can be verified were in Central America (Classical Mayan). There have been other writing systems derived for American Indian languages, but they came much later, for example Sequoya's Cherokee syllabary in the early 19th century (Cherokee is an Iroquoian language, but the Cherokee were not part of the Iroquois Confederacy). Most written texts of American Indian languages are relatively recent, and were invented or stimulated by Europeans.

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ruel
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2001 :  01:20:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ruel's Homepage Send ruel a Private Message
Before the Classical Maya, the Olmec and Mixtec also had a type of heiroglyphic script, which has yet to be completely deciphered.

Here are some links to sample inscriptions. Text is in Spanish:
http://www.proel.org/alfabetos/mixteco.html
http://www.proel.org/alfabetos/olmeco.html

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Espritch
Skeptic Friend

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2001 :  23:12:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Espritch's Homepage Send Espritch a Private Message
Has Mayan been translated? I was under the impression that the Catholic Church destroyed so many of the Mayan texts existent at the time of the conquest as "unchristian" that there wasn't enough left for any one to figure out how to read it.

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