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Bozola
Skeptic Friend
USA
166 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2001 : 12:17:57
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I have no television, so most of the time I have idea of where these concerns and issues that people raise come from. Case in point, the "problems" with organic food. The name John Stossel is unfamiliar to me; normally, I assume that reporters are careful to research their work, and have a modicum of detached objectivity. All of the ones I've met exhibit these traits.
Stossel, it would appear, takes liberties.
FAIR
Of course, the king is still FOX.
Bozola
- Practicing skeet for the Rapture.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 13:02:45 [Permalink]
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No, PAX is the king here Bozola 
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 13:21:04 [Permalink]
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I find it interesting that you only seem to be attacking people, instead of their ideas...
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 20:15:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
I find it interesting that you only seem to be attacking people, instead of their ideas...
Actually, I think the argument made here is that Stossel severely biased his reporting because of his attitude. Therefore , the program itself is not a useful source of information. Perhaps Bozola could have toned down the rhetoric but the information contained on his post is informative in that it answers questions regarding the emotive language used in the program.
About the only real news on television right now is The News Hour and Frontline. Both on PBS.
Regards,
Greg.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 20:18:05 [Permalink]
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Frontline is the best!!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 21:23:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually, I think the argument made here is that Stossel severely biased his reporting because of his attitude. Therefore , the program itself is not a useful source of information.
See, this is the problem I have. The data should stand on it's own. You can't just say "Hey, someone says this guy lied about something at some point in the past, therefore nothing he says can possibly be true, and I'm not even going to give it a hearing!" This is what Bozola seems to be doing. Dismissing opposing viewpoints, simply because he doesn't like the people espousing them.
Besides, F.A.I.R. is anything but...
NBC staged a truck blowing up, and generated a false story. Now is everything NBC reports by default useless information (jokes about the media aside) because they lied?
If that was the standard, we couldn't believe anything anyone said.
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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Bozola
Skeptic Friend
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 12:18:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Besides, F.A.I.R. is anything but...
Please back up your statement. I've always found FAIR to be careful and well researched.
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See, this is the problem I have. The data should stand on it's own.
Data should stand on it's own. In this case the data was fabricated so that it could appear to "stand on it's own". It's called a "lie". It's intended to deceive. Deception is bad.
quote:
You can't just say "Hey, someone says this guy lied about something at some point in the past, therefore nothing he says can possibly be true, and I'm not even going to give it a hearing!" This is what Bozola seems to be doing. Dismissing opposing viewpoints, simply because he doesn't like the people espousing them.
Wanna buy a bridge in New York? Ever hear the saying "once bit, twice shy?"
How about the word "gullible"?
Stossel was caught lying. Blatently. ABC repremanded him. It's as simple as that.
News journalists, especially television news journalists, are in a position of public trust. We trust them when they produce a "factual" report and display it to millions of viewers that it actually contains facts, not dogmatic fantasies. We trust them not to invent some vitrolic puffpiece with an agenda to influence the peoples of the US.
These people have a responsibility, and they should all be held accountable. In the scientific community he'd have been tossed out on his a$$. The reason for this is that science is based on trust and integrity. Violate this trust and you're history.
This is not about "emotive language" or viewpoints. Stossel lied and was caught. He grossly violated his position in the public trust. He has proven himself tainted and unrepentant. Stossel needs to be tossed out on his a$$, along with every other hack that's found.
Personally, I'm sick of liars and spin doctors...and the people who follow them.
Bozola
- Practicing skeet for the Rapture. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 12:25:11 [Permalink]
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If you think about it, Stossel is the perfect recruit for whatever industry that would care to employ him. After working for ABC all these years and building up public trust, who better to hire as a mouthpiece for big business? Ralph Nadar would be an even better coup, but his price is probably too high.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 13:51:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
This is not about "emotive language" or viewpoints. Stossel lied and was caught. He grossly violated his position in the public trust. He has proven himself tainted and unrepentant. Stossel needs to be tossed out on his a$$, along with every other hack that's found.
Bozola,
You're absolutely right. I initially did not dig deep enough into the site before I made my comments. These people are capable of wielding tremendous influence on the masses. I recall years ago when polls showed that Walter Cronkite was the "most trusted man in America". Not that Stossel is at that point but many people will believe him because he's on TV and his job is to determine the "truth". And besides, he wouldn't lie would he?
Greg.
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 15:02:00 [Permalink]
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When anybody deliberately lies or gives false accounts of anything at all, from then on, I stop reading, listening, or watching anything coming from that person. I do not have time in my life to bother with the producers of blatent blather. If a person wants my attention, that person must not prevaricate. If some or all people feel otherwise, then it is their lives and their minds which are involved, and it absolutely none of my business.
ljbrs
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 16:40:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
If some or all people feel otherwise, then it is their lives and their minds which are involved, and it absolutely none of my business.
Except that media people can sway opinion and are generally trusted. Perhaps it's nieve of me to try to debate such an issue as global warming on scientific grounds. There's such resistance to the data.
Bozola,
I have tried to ignore this spin doctoring media thing throughout my arguments on global warming. We could get mired in he said/she said type sh*t real fast and I would like to avoid that. What really fries me though is scientists who have a political/economic ax to grind expecting the general population to appeal to their authority without sufficient reason. Sounds like 'faith' to me.
Greg.
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Bozola
Skeptic Friend
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2001 : 15:43:13 [Permalink]
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Spin doctoring data is evil. It's what we here like to point to those pathetic creationists and laugh at for.
Or, do we laugh at them because the quality of their spin is so poor? We skeptics are far more sophisticated because our version of Duane T. Gish sports a jaunty moustache, nice hair, and can lie without spitting saliva. I do feel so much better.
Ah, dear me, doesn't anyone check to see who's glass teat they're suckling on anymore?
quote:
What really fries me though is scientists who have a political/economic ax to grind expecting the general population to appeal to their authority without sufficient reason. Sounds like 'faith' to me.
I fully agree, it is faith. I view these people as conmen who are trying to steal from the community chest.
Bozola
- Practicing skeet for the Rapture. |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2001 : 01:29:10 [Permalink]
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Okay. Can anyone name a truly skeptical journalist out there? I'd love to tune into someone I could trust to "just tell me the facts, ma'am". I can draw my own conclusions, but every network, newsperson, magazine, what have you, seems to have their own axe to grind.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2001 : 10:27:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Okay. Can anyone name a truly skeptical journalist out there? I'd love to tune into someone I could trust to "just tell me the facts, ma'am". I can draw my own conclusions, but every network, newsperson, magazine, what have you, seems to have their own axe to grind.
Lisa
That's why you need several references to the same story. I can't think of one journalist who is beyond reproach. So, if I want a slant on, say, the Okinawa rape case, I'll skip around between ABC, CNN and BBC. The Brits, in particular have a different perspective on things American that we hold so dear (and biased).
The truth does not reside with one person. It has to be sloshed out of the mud. Like panning for gold.
(:raig |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2001 : 10:48:33 [Permalink]
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It depends on the story. If it's a story in the U.S. about the U.S. government, or a U.S. corporation, it's probably straight from the corporation or government agency as a for instance.
Noam Chomsky and Ed Herman are important authors to read regarding the media, as well as FAIR's Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon.
quote:
quote:
Okay. Can anyone name a truly skeptical journalist out there? I'd love to tune into someone I could trust to "just tell me the facts, ma'am". I can draw my own conclusions, but every network, newsperson, magazine, what have you, seems to have their own axe to grind.
Lisa
That's why you need several references to the same story. I can't think of one journalist who is beyond reproach. So, if I want a slant on, say, the Okinawa rape case, I'll skip around between ABC, CNN and BBC. The Brits, in particular have a different perspective on things American that we hold so dear (and biased).
The truth does not reside with one person. It has to be sloshed out of the mud. Like panning for gold.
(:raig
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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