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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2003 : 00:32:17
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I am having a debate with some university buddies about true altruism. Has there ever been a documented case?
A guy jumping on a granade is not because he knows his family will remember him as a hero..... any thoughts?
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If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 01:17:33 [Permalink]
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It seems people use the word "altruism" to refer to different behaviors. The scientific definition is, "deliberate sacrifice of a portion of an individual's reproductive capacity in order to increase that of another." From this paper. I would focus on this definition, instead of the more popular, and probably unprovable, "acting from purely unselfish motives." Albert Camus makes a convincing case that the latter does not exist.
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I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 02:25:16 [Permalink]
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| PH you have an evolutionary answer to everything, thats good. This is for the more popular view. Like McDonald's with their McDonald's house, they help a lot of people.....but are they just trying to sell hamburgers? Mother Theresa helped a lot of people, but if she got self gratification out of it altruism disappears. A person who sacrifices himself to save others but nobody is there to report it would be a case....but it would be hard to report that evidence. If he thought it would never be known, (then found out later) that would be a case. I want to know if that has ever happened. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 12:52:36 [Permalink]
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Did you read that paper I linked to, fireballn? Kin selection and reproductive fitness seem to go a long way toward explaining apparently altruistic behavior. In any case, I can't imagine why you would need a documented case of altruistic behavior. As per your hypothetical, the odds are probably astronomical that something exactly like that hasn't happened. I would think the burden of proof would be on the one claiming that a perfectly plausible SOA hasn't obtained simply because they don't think there's any such thing as pure altruism.
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I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 13:19:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
A person who sacrifices himself to save others but nobody is there to report it would be a case....
If you use the definition: acting from purely unselfish motives then such an act is probably impossible and perhaps the word should not even exist because no matter what you get something out of it even if it's just the satisfaction of knowing that others might live. Whether anyone is there to record it or not is meaningless since the act only would matter from the perspective of the one doing this deed.
I say that there is no such thing.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 00:28:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
PH you have an evolutionary answer to everything, thats good. This is for the more popular view. Like McDonald's with their McDonald's house, they help a lot of people.....but are they just trying to sell hamburgers? Mother Theresa helped a lot of people, but if she got self gratification out of it altruism disappears. A person who sacrifices himself to save others but nobody is there to report it would be a case....but it would be hard to report that evidence. If he thought it would never be known, (then found out later) that would be a case. I want to know if that has ever happened.
LOL, was going to say, you could have waited a little longer before mentioning Mother Theresa.
IMO, there can never be pure altruism. But I'd have to ponder it a bit more to be sure. |
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