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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2003 : 19:10:40 [Permalink]
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Phaedrus: quote:
Also, DA seems to have forgotten that the ad hominem argument is about as valid as dubya's political philosophy.
Because Darwin, as an individual, may have been a racist; or because Stalin, as an individual, may have been
enamoured with his own reading of Darwin's theory, does not vitiate evolutionary theory as such. The same, of course,
holds true of religious folk and their excesses.
Not at all, I've said it before on other threads that "what some followers do doesn't affect the truth-claims of any particular religious,philosophic, or scientific theory." quote:
No wars
have been fought over the correct interpretation of E=mc2. Why does DA think that is?
I wasn't aware that I had made such a claim? Perhaps you could provide a quote demonstrating where I did?  |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
| Edited by - darwin alogos on 02/19/2003 19:11:29 |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 02:19:00 [Permalink]
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> I wasn't aware that I had made such a claim? Perhaps you could
> provide a quote demonstrating where I did?
You misinterpreted the person's statement. The person didn't say that specifically you said that people fought over the correct interpretation of E=mc2. He or she gave an example of the "Religious/mystic thinking is inherantly dangerous to open, democratic societies" idea and wondered how you would explain the truth of the example. |
Antie. DIES GAUDII.
Facies Fabulosarum Feminarum
If you can name all six of the females in the picture above without looking up their names, and you can read the Latin phrase, pat yourself on the back. You're smart. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 12:24:22 [Permalink]
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Antie: quote:
You misinterpreted the person's statement.
How I quoted it and said quote:
I wasn't aware that I had made such a claim? Perhaps you could provide a quote demonstrating where I did?
How on earth can I have "misinterpreted" their statement when all I said was give me a reference where I said it??? quote:
He or she gave an example of the "Religious/mystic thinking is inherantly dangerous to open, democratic societies" idea and wondered how you would explain the truth of the example.
So ancient the Greek democraices had no "Religious/mystic thinking" and of course our founding fathers were all materialist right??? |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 12:58:32 [Permalink]
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So ancient the Greek democraices had no "Religious/mystic thinking"
That's correct, Greek Democracy was not based on the wills of any gods but on strictly human concerns. The ancient Greek Theocracies and their Tyrants were based completely on religious and mystical thinking.
and of course our founding fathers were all materialist right???
Not all, but most. And certainly the most important ones were. That is exactly what you would expect in "The Age of Reason." The Continental churches were supporters of the divine right of kings and were generally opposed to Pagan Democracy and fought the establishment of it tooth and nail. Particularly the separation of church and state since they had had so much power up to this point.
Today churches like to claim that they invented Democracy even though they continually try to under mine it. They even deny that they supported slavery and condemned Lincoln as an Atheist (which he was) for the Emancipation Proclamation. Lying bastards.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 14:03:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin alogos
How on earth can I have "misinterpreted" their statement when all I said was give me a reference where I said it???
Cripes man...
quote:
No wars have been fought over the correct interpretation of E=mc2. Why does DA think that is?
He's stating that no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas and theories. The question is, what is your opinion as to why this is the case?
He's not claiming you think wars have been fought over E=mc2. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2003 : 02:21:13 [Permalink]
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TD: quote:
He's not claiming you think wars have been fought over E=mc2.
Your right,my bad |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2003 : 02:26:10 [Permalink]
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TD: quote:
He's stating that no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas and theories. The question is, what is
your opinion as to why this is the case?
While it is true that "no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas..." They sure have made "wars" a lot more deadly,ie E=Mc2 leads to The Manhattan Project. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2003 : 16:11:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin alogos
TD: quote:
He's stating that no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas and theories. The question is, what is
your opinion as to why this is the case?
While it is true that "no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas..." They sure have made "wars" a lot more deadly,ie E=Mc2 leads to The Manhattan Project.
War is no more deadly now than it ever was. Dead is dead! When the Europeans came to the New World and killed 150 million indigenous people, that was perhaps the most deadly war in the history of our murderous specie.
Here's a reference for that number. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
| Edited by - walt fristoe on 02/23/2003 16:20:11 |
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2003 : 04:23:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
While it is true that "no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas..." They sure have made "wars" a lot more deadly,ie E=Mc2 leads to The Manhattan Project.
Darwin Alogos has yet to answer the question posed by Phaedrus. I've seen so many of the above-type "answers" to that question. DA may very well be confusing technology with science. Science is more of a methodology to discover certain things about the universe, as well as an attitude to what consitutes truth.
DA should also note that most scientists who worked on the Manhattan project opposed the use of the atom bomb. Non-scientists, such as generals and politicians eventually gave the green light for its use.
DA's confusion aside, here's my answer to Phaedrus's question:
Religion, unlike science, introduces the idea that certain ideas are sacred and not open to modification. Scientific theories operate with opposite assumptions. When people challenge ideas which are sacred and not open to modification, those who believe in the "sacredness" of them, tend to get quite upset. Upset enough, say, to create things like the Spanish Inquisition.. |
Find your own damned answers! |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2003 : 17:27:03 [Permalink]
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walt fristoe: quote:
War is no more deadly now than it ever was. Dead is dead!
You are kidding right? While "Dead is dead" is true,you can't be serious that warfare is "is no more deadly now than it ever was"? |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2003 : 18:53:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin alogos
walt fristoe: quote:
War is no more deadly now than it ever was. Dead is dead!
You are kidding right? While "Dead is dead" is true,you can't be serious that warfare is "is no more deadly now than it ever was"?
I suppose it depends on your definition of deadly. With modern technology, warfare can kill people more quickly, but, again, they're just as dead whether they were killed by a nuclear warhead or a massive attempt to christianize them, with fire and sword if they're unwilling to convert. It just took a few centuries longer in the case of the invasion of the new world. So if killing people more quickly means deadlier, then I'm willing to concede that modern warfare is deadlier.
However, I don't see what that has to do with the point in issue, which is : why have no wars been fought over the interpretation of scientific theories? Perhaps you could enlighten me further? |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
| Edited by - walt fristoe on 02/24/2003 18:57:31 |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2003 : 20:38:53 [Permalink]
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walt fristoe: quote:
However, I don't see what that has to do with the point in issue, which is : why have no wars been fought over the
interpretation of scientific theories? Perhaps you could enlighten me further?
I already coceeded that point walt: [DA] While it is true that "no wars have been fought over interpretations of scientific ideas..." As to why I think Orpheus is pretty close to the mark:Scientific theories
operate with opposite assumptions. When people challenge ideas which are sacred and not open to modification, those who
believe in the "sacredness" of them, tend to get quite upset. Now does that mean I agree that if you follow the NT your bound to lead to the horrible atrocities that have been mentioned? Not at all 2 of the churches condemened by Jesus in the book of Revelation are the ones that follow the "Doctrines of the Nicolaitans"(greek Nico= to rule; Laity=the people) and the lukewarm health wealth and prosperity Laodiceans. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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