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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2003 : 17:01:17
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I had never seen this dialogue before, it is chilling considering its accuracy and source. I checked it out on snopes.com just to make sure it wasn't one of those created for the times things(e.g. 9/11 Nostradamus Predictions,) and they verified it as true. Apparently came from a interview at Nuremburg by an intelligence officer who had access to all the prisoners there during the trials.
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"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."
"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
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Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 17:56:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofEntropy
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Chilling indeed. And probably right on the money. I bet Bush knew about this conversation long ago. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 19:38:23 [Permalink]
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It's authentic, alright. You can find it in Nuremberg Diary by Gustav M. Gilbert PhD. It was published in 1947 and is still in print.
Gilbert was a German-speaking psychologist who had been serving as an intelligence officer when he was assigned to the jail where the major Nazi war criminals were being held. Originally assigned as an interpreter for the prison psychiatrist he was subsequently appointed as prison psychologist and was expected both to keep an eye on the prisoners' mental health (there were a total of three suicides during and immediately after the trial) and also to gather information that might be useful to the prison commander and the prosecution.
Gilbert was interested in studying, from a psychological point of view, how an advanced nation like Germany could descend so thoroughly into barbarism and particularly what process could transform people ranging from working-class concentration camp guard to highly educated men like Otto Ohlendorf and Rudolf Hoess into mass killers for whom the commission of atrocities was an ordinary routine. He used his access to the major war criminals at Nuremberg and other Nazi criminals to gather data. He reached some depressing conclusions, which are better delineated in Nuremberg: Infamy on Trial by Joseph E. Persico than in his own book.
Simply put, anyone who tells you "it can't happen here", wherever "here" might be, doesn't know what they're talking about.
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"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 22:30:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
I bet Bush knew about this conversation long ago.
I'd bet with you. I don't think so. I think P. Bush is an idiot and doesn't know much of anything.
Now, if you want to bet I'm a terrorist........ |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 22:45:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofEntropy
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
BTW, I think the 'leaders' already have things worked out the way they want things to go. It's all a charade. The 'will of the people' means nothing. |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 23:37:53 [Permalink]
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| Has anyone else noticed how quickly people have polarized? Wonder if it is because the rift from the sixties, never really healed. It's too bad, really, once polarized, a real discussion can't take place, and one is badly needed on definning just what America is to be about. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 00:10:41 [Permalink]
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Cute as this topic title is, you would think that since Bush's arguments for war are so weak the title should be: Only High School Dropouts Agree with Bush.
Shoot, there I go insulting high school dropouts. My bad.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 01:08:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by NubiWan
Has anyone else noticed how quickly people have polarized? Wonder if it is because the rift from the sixties, never really healed. It's too bad, really, once polarized, a real discussion can't take place, and one is badly needed on definning just what America is to be about.
No. I hadn't noticed.
Actually, I am for war. I'd like to see most all human beings killed off so the rest of the animals could take over the Earth and make the world a better place. Mankind doesn't seem to know how and doesn't appear to be a very smart animal when it comes to getting along with his own kind. |
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 06:38:04 [Permalink]
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Kind of along these lines, if you get a chance go to cspan.org and check out the most watched videos list. Look for the Ari Fleischer press conference. Some great doublespeak and non-answers abound.
The best part however is when the press corps laughs Ari out of the conference. This was brought on after he acted so incredulous when asked about international quid pro quo, aid for votes type stuff. This is in the last minute or so of the 30 minute video. |
Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2003 : 04:47:20 [Permalink]
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The Bush media machine does seem to have that old "you're either with us or against us" motto. Notice also how they ease up on war-talk (yet continue with war preperation anyway) whenever global and local opposition mounts..
Scary stuff.. |
Find your own damned answers! |
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