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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2003 : 03:14:38
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Same as my other post ("the most influential Skeptic?"), but asking the opposite question. Who, in our time, has done the most harm to the Skeptical world-view. Who can be considered the premier enemy of freethinking, and why?
My vote goes to the American Media, for pervasively underselling science and skepticism for the sake of the mighty dollar. It disseminates more pseudoscience, religion, and other hocus-pocus than most other nations in the world combined. Given that American programming sets the trend for the international media, it is very alarming...
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Find your own damned answers! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2003 : 06:29:21 [Permalink]
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| Yes, but people like Deepak Chopra who use their degrees to legitmize their hokum have to be the worst. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 06:55:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Yes, but people like Deepak Chopra who use their degrees to legitmize their hokum have to be the worst.
Agreed. Add Dr Phil to the list. He dispenses "psychological" advice, but actually holds a PhD in business management! |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 08:37:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Yes, but people like Deepak Chopra who use their degrees to legitmize their hokum have to be the worst.
Agreed. Add Dr Phil to the list. He dispenses "psychological" advice, but actually holds a PhD in business management!
My List
Purvevors of what I call Tinkly Crystal Newage crap.
Televangelists
Pat Robertson
Jerry Falwell
Uri Geller
Television Psychics
Sylvia Browne (entering her second year of ducking the Amazing Randi)
Bart Sibrel
Ralph Rene
Piper/SeeThruArt
JFK conspiracists
Noam Chomsky
The media for giving these losers air-time
Political party leaders who push for demonizing the other party instead of talking about issues
The Bush Administration Iraqi war contingent
PETA (and I don't mean the People for the Eating of Tasty Animals)
Eco-terrorist organizations
Radical extremist religious leaders
Weekly World News and other papers of their caliber (no matter how funny I find them)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 09:50:44 [Permalink]
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| I'd have to say the Australian companies who own The Learning Channel and all the Discovery Channels. They advertise themselves as teaching popular science a la Carl Sagan and then mix in every crack-pot piece of bunk that they can fit. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 10:10:15 [Permalink]
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The Skeptic's greatest enemy is Truth.
If truth were told all the time, Skeptics would become little more than a public nuisance (as if we weren't considered such already).
Therefore, we should embrace the liars with open arms, even as we drive their crap into the ground like a fence post.
So, come to me brothers Falwell and Robertson, et al, and know that when I bang your mendacious heads together, I do it out of love as well as disgust.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 10:41:03 [Permalink]
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| How come Noam Chomsky is on both lists? Can he, at the same time, be among the most influential skeptics and among the greatest enemies of skepticism? |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 10:45:13 [Permalink]
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| Well, I'd put the Anti-Chomsky crowd on the greatest enemies list. People like David Horowitz ( http://www.frontpagemag.com ). |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 20:11:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Vailant Dancer: Weekly World News and other papers of their caliber (no matter how funny I find them)
I may be with you on the other tabloids, but the Weekly World News is clearly parody. In fact, I would love to write for them....
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 01:03:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
How come Noam Chomsky is on both lists? Can he, at the same time, be among the most influential skeptics and among the greatest enemies of skepticism?
Indeed. And why does Valiant Dancer include eco-terror groups? Politically, they may be dodgy, but how are they harming skepticism?
I don't get the anti-Chomsky fervour. Is it because he likes pointing out the hypocrisy of the USA? He seems to me a thorough skeptic. |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 06:55:21 [Permalink]
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We've had extensive "discussions" of Chomsky here if the archives still hold them you can do a search. Those that are truly against him have read people like Horowitz who distort much of what Chomsky says, and take that to be the truth for some reason.
For instance, the idea that Chomsky was an apologist for Pol Pot when he was a critic of Pol Pot and US support of Pol Pot. Distortions and lies, mostly.
quote:
I don't get the anti-Chomsky fervour. Is it because he likes pointing out the hypocrisy of the USA? He seems to me a thorough skeptic.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 07:41:05 [Permalink]
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| Yeah. Rubysue is a good example of what I was saying. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 08:34:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
How come Noam Chomsky is on both lists? Can he, at the same time, be among the most influential skeptics and among the greatest enemies of skepticism?
Indeed. And why does Valiant Dancer include eco-terror groups? Politically, they may be dodgy, but how are they harming skepticism?
I don't get the anti-Chomsky fervour. Is it because he likes pointing out the hypocrisy of the USA? He seems to me a thorough skeptic.
I include eco-terror groups because they override the non-violent ecological groups who are trying to present a balanced side to the environmental issue. Every legitamate environmental group has the antics of "Earth First" thrown at them to attack them instead of their position. Without this noise (like the pro-life folks when dealing with Operation Rescue), logical debate would be more likely to occur. Instead, opponents to their viewpoint have a handy generalization to distract from the subject.
I have read Chomsky directly. I find his conclusions for several of his historical accounts to be inaccurate and assume a conspiritorial tone. We have been around and around with this subject. Gorgo believes that everything that Chomsky puts forth is absolutely accurate. I believe that he means well, but his conclusions do not always follow his evidence. Since there is such a disparity in a few of his accounts to conclusions, I see him as an enemy to skepticism. Chomsky ignores history when it refutes his message.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 08:46:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Indeed. And why does Valiant Dancer include eco-terror groups? Politically, they may be dodgy, but how are they harming skepticism?
Sadly many ecological political groups include a heavy dose of psuedoscience. While they have good intentions this does not excuse the fact they make claims that are sometimes not supported by the evidence (not necesarily false in many cases just not enough research to know for a fact).
While I agree with these groups and that are environment should be preserved I also think they should clean up their acts and use real science all the time.
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I have to name religion as the #1 enemy to skeptics. It demands that people do just the opposite of what a skeptic should do or else they are tortured for eternity or suffer some other ill fate. |
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