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sheleg33
New Member
1 Post |
 Posted - 03/09/2003 : 14:36:08
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I recommend to everyone who wishes this beautiful website of Meditation, yoga, religion, philosophy… I received a lot of inspiration from it hope you will too www.har-tzion.com
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2003 : 00:14:45 [Permalink]
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| Meditation and chanting...can anyone think of a bigger waste of time than that? |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2003 : 02:50:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Meditation and chanting...can anyone think of a bigger waste of time than that?
Apologetics?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2003 : 08:21:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Meditation and chanting...can anyone think of a bigger waste of time than that?
Actually, meditation is not completely worthless. For the sake of religion, it is completely worthless. As a means to train ones mind in relaxation techniques and mental focus practice, it has some worth. In the way that our new friend here suggests it, it is religion pure and simple. I do not expect him to post again as he was probably just looking for web hits.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2003 : 22:30:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Meditation and chanting...can anyone think of a bigger waste of time than that?
Hum! Slater, are we just a little too closed minded here. Skeptic, doesn't mean....anti something.
As it happened, I did also read Vals answer too and he is right.
I could give various examples but why ramble on. Would you agree with them anyway?! |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 01:07:34 [Permalink]
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How can you call me closed minded and then refuse to give examples...you are the closed minded one.
I have tried meditation and chanting several times. At a Buddhist monastary in the north of Japan, in Thailand at the temple of the jade Buddha and here at the Zen Center in SF. Each time with renouned teachers guiding me.
I repeat, I cannot think of a bigger waste of a persons time. Squat there, don't think and make the same meaningless sounds over and over again. Thank you, but the problem in this world is too little thought and not too much. And as for meaningless babble..... |
| Edited by - Slater on 03/11/2003 01:08:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 05:22:47 [Permalink]
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Umm. I guess it's what sort of mediation you're doing. The watch-yer-navel-and-chant-Om type seems sort of strenous, and indeed organized to me (although I admit I've never tried it. The Omers might well know something I don't).
But I find shutting off the radio (gots no working toob) AND the computer, and just sitting, letting my mind drift for a few minutes, usually -- sometimes longer, refreshing. I've been doing this for years.
Meditation? I dunno. But it sorta sounds like it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 06:17:34 [Permalink]
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I agree. I've been doing Yoga for some time now and not only does it make your body more flexible (ahem.. ), but the relaxation methods (akin to meditation) are very beneficial. With practice, you can induce a calmer state quite quickly despite external distractions.
Professional athletes are taught how to do this (by sport psychologists) with biofeedback patches which change colour as they undergo the physiological processes associated with relaxation.
Check out this link for a more "secularized" meditation. Give it a bash! |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 07:45:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
How can you call me closed minded and then refuse to give examples...you are the closed minded one.
I have tried meditation and chanting several times. At a Buddhist monastary in the north of Japan, in Thailand at the temple of the jade Buddha and here at the Zen Center in SF. Each time with renouned teachers guiding me.
I repeat, I cannot think of a bigger waste of a persons time. Squat there, don't think and make the same meaningless sounds over and over again. Thank you, but the problem in this world is too little thought and not too much. And as for meaningless babble.....
Slater, there are other forms of meditation which require you to hold a single thought for an extended period of time. Not just clearing your mind and keeping it blank. It also teaches relaxation techniques which have some benefit. The forms of meditation do not always have a chanting component. (All of the meditation I have done, does not have a chanting component.) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 10:59:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Meditation and chanting...can anyone think of a bigger waste of time than that?
Actually, chanting can be useful. Here's how I use it:
Very often, as I'm trying to get to sleep at night, I just can't turn off the internal dialogue, especially if I've come across some very interesting idea or problem during the day. But sometimes I simply cannot afford to lay awake for hours, because I have to get up early the next morning to get things done. So as a means of turning off, or overriding, the internal dialogue, I will chant, internally, nam myoho rengay kyo (having been briefly exposed to Nichirin Shoshu Buddhism). This procedure always works for me, putting me to sleep within just a few minutes. I suppose any nonsensical phrase would do, as long as it has few, or no, associations. But I certainly don't use it in any religious sense, merely a utilitarian one. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 14:12:37 [Permalink]
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| Geez, Walt! Find yourself a different mantra before someone asks you where your yacht and mansion are, and you've gotta explain you're not one of those chanters. [big grin] |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 14:32:26 [Permalink]
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Aaaaahhhhuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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| Edited by - Slater on 03/11/2003 14:33:29 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2003 : 01:15:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
How can you call me closed minded and then refuse to give examples...you are the closed minded one.
WTF, who refused to give examples. I'm not going to talk to you if you miss read or misunderstand what is being said. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2003 : 01:20:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
I agree. I've been doing Yoga for some time now and not only does it make your body more flexible (ahem..), but the relaxation methods (akin to meditation) are very beneficial
That's so odd.
Yoga is the one thing I would never do because it is directly associated with a religion, and one that has gods too.
At least with Buddhist meditation one isn't doing it for the 'glory of god'.
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2003 : 01:40:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
That's so odd.
Yoga is the one thing I would never do because it is directly associated with a religion, and one that has gods too.
At least with Buddhist meditation one isn't doing it for the 'glory of god'.
Indeed, Yoga is associated with Hinduism, but nowadays, few practitioners of Yoga buy into the religious explanations forwarded for its benefits. You will find Yoga-like excercises being used by physiotherapists as well. I don't think it's odd to do something which is associated with religion. You don't have to buy into the religious rhetoric. I think it's odd to deny yourself health benefits based on purely ideological grounds.
The Yoga I practice and have been taught contains no references to Hindu mysticism at all. It is simply the modern variant of the ancient practice. I certainly don't do it for the glory of god, but rather for the glory of my spine..and my sex life  |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2003 : 05:27:13 [Permalink]
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As a yoga practicioner myself (and a card-carrying atheist and skeptic), I find similar misconceptions from both camps. On one hand, there are those "more yoga than thou" practicioners who seem to think that one is a poser if one doesn't go all the way, accepting Hindu mysticism, becoming vegetarian, etc., etc. This is not only bullshit, but runs counter to the "I'm OK, you're OK" view that the philosophy encourages.
On the other hand, there are those who believe that ANYTHING that can be traced in any way to religious origins must be dismissed wholesale. This is what we call the genetic fallacy. While I would agree that any occaisional truths revealed via religion have probably been gained coincidentally, such truths can stand on their own, independent of their religious origins. While the practice does attract some new age loonies and other mystics, the health benifits stand on their own merit, and I've never felt as though I have had to buy into any weird supernatural notions to understand how the practice works.
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"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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