|
|
|
|
Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
 Posted - 05/28/2003 : 10:29:32
|
Over at http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-047b.htm one can read the following about SETI:
But what is the scientific basis for the assumption of extraterrestrial existence? Nothing at all. This religious view may masquerade as science and be promulgated in science classrooms, but it is not science. Students deserve better.
First of all, I'm not an astronomer, but as far as I can tell, the circumstances for life to come about shouldn't be considered an impossibility. The recent findings of many extrasolar planets and even an atmosphere on at least one of them, and in addition also that the molecules that have and maybe will be the building blocks of life, seems to make life elsewhere in the universe a possibility. The right conditions have to be met (for example as was the case in our solar system). The question I'm asking is this: Is there really NO scientific basis to consider the possibility of life in the universe?
Note that I'm not saying that there is life elsewhere, only that to me, it seems very possible. I am sure others who know more will correct me. :)
The other question is, why would ICR accuse others of masquerading religion as science? Isn't that the whole point about being a creationist? And in relation to this, the last sentence is wonderful: "Students deserve better." They deserve better than religion pretending to be science? Good, we don't have to worry about ICR being involved in the promotion of creationism in schools, then. :)
|
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2003 : 11:43:04 [Permalink]
|
I'm not an astronomer either but I did attend the talk SETI gave at San Francisco Mensa. The fact that there is life on Earth is the basis of the certainty, not the possibility, of life in the universe. There is no way to know if it is anywhere else without looking. It's the "S" that makes SETI science and not religion. "S" for search. Were it religion it would be called AETI. "A" for 'assumption of.'
Welcome to SFN by the way. |
-------
I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
 |
|
|
Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2003 : 05:18:27 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Slater
I'm not an astronomer either but I did attend the talk SETI gave at San Francisco Mensa. The fact that there is life on Earth is the basis of the certainty, not the possibility, of life in the universe. There is no way to know if it is anywhere else without looking. It's the "S" that makes SETI science and not religion. "S" for search. Were it religion it would be called AETI. "A" for 'assumption of.'
Exactly my thoughts, too. It seems to me that these christians are afraid of what answer the SETI might give us. Another funny thing is how they see the hunt for extrasolar planets...
Intense competition has arisen among astronomers to detect such objects. Success insures media attention, journal publication, and continued research funding.
http://www.icr.org/faqs/sgp37.html
They're either angry at, or afraid of, the search for extrasolar planets. Or, just annoyed. The question is why?
quote:
Welcome to SFN by the way.
Thank you! |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 17:39:57 [Permalink]
|
Let us say that life came about here on Earth, so it shouldn't be a surprise if the same thing happened elsewhere under life-producing conditions. The fact that it has happened here makes it very, very possible elsewhere. It is a huge universe, after all.
I often think that if some huge being were to look down on Earth and see all of these squigley, squirming critters, he/she/it would want to throw Earth into some cosmic garbage pail. Yuck!
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 19:16:11 [Permalink]
|
My thoughts on the matter are that in such a huge, to us, an area as the galaxy, cluttered with so many suns and probable solar systems, there must be a lot of planets that would be favorable to life of some sort. So, it stands to reason that life will form and evolve as it did here on Earth. The Galaxy might well be teeming with life.
But here's the kicker: How much of this 'life' would be what we think of as 'intelligent'? Speaking evolution-wise, 'intelligence' has yet to show much long-term, survival value, at least here on our, soggy, little mudball. SETI could well be on a snipe hunt.
And even if we happen to get the sought-after signals, the being that created them would be long dead (most likely, but who knows? Yeah, and I'm a Trekkie).
There is also the thought that the 'intelligence' we hear would be so alien that we might not recognize it as such.
Don't ya just love it?!
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2003 : 06:11:19 [Permalink]
|
Back when the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" was making a big splash in the public's eye/media, there was National Enquirer (of course) jumping on the bandwagon. I recall a headline grabber, "Billy Graham Believes in Space Aliens". I read into it a bit with it saying that yes, he believed they exisited on distant planets, that they looked a lot like us human beings, AND that the space aliens believed in Jesus Christ. What a riot!
Now, let's think about this for a bit. Maybe these aliens have two legs, but they evolved four arms. With that in mind, instead of a two arm crucifix like we have here, that'd cause the alien crucifix to be for four arms. Or maybe they had no arms; so, just a stick for a cross. Hm, the possibilities. 
No doubt the extreme fundies will invent some little fantasy to plug-in to deal with any new discovery (haven't they always?). My guess, with a confirmed intelligent alien discovery, that the thought would terrorize them into complete denial. And why not?, I wonder. So many of them are delusional now with the religious fantasy world they've perpetuated and live with here. Mind games.
I ran the SETI at home software for a couple of years. Got a couple hundred units done. The idea of lending computing power thru the internet is too cool. Heard of other similar projects like number crunching for cancer drugs.
Back to ET's. Course you know of the Drake Equation....
http://www.setileague.org/general/drake.htm
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
Seems that Carl Sagan had mention in one of his earlier books of other numbers to plug in to the formula. Ourselves?, we're precariously teetering on the brink with the technological fork-in-the-road we're at. Will we kill ourselves/planet?, or survive to the next level, whatever that may be. Oh, Capt'n Kirk's Federation world, perhaps.
As Sagan really tried to bring across, I think a good, accurate cosmic perspective, is a healthy way to look (behave) at things here on planet earth, if anything, for our own survival's sake. To be good stewards of spaceship Earth.
Wonders of the universe we live in, sort of thing. I can usually tap into that thought in .02 nanoseconds.
Funny too, the "space aliens invaded my body" zipperhead people, have E.T.s running all over the place here, - kidnapping people, morphing into your next-door neighbor or hairdresser.
Where'd they come from?
In the real world reality, scientist/astronmers have only just now begun to discover -other- planets.
|
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
| Edited by - Randy on 06/08/2003 06:19:06 |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
