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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2003 : 17:31:18
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Over at
tomPaine.com's blog there is this:
quote:
Better Luck Next Time
While U.S. troops face guerrilla resistence in post-war Iraq and taxpayers shoulder mounting costs of nearly $4 billion a month, The Los Angeles Times published a long piece today about mistakes made while trying to bring order to chaos. After starting way too late, Gen. Jay Garner admitted "gaps in planning, coordination and anticipation of such mission-threatening problems as looting and civil unrest." Friendly blogger Atrios points out that near the end of the story, Douglass J. Feith and other Pentagon officials told the Times "they are studying the lessons of Iraq closely--to insure that the next U.S. takeover of a foreign country goes more smoothly.
"'We're going to get better over time' promised Lawrence Di Rita, a special assistant to Rumsfeld. We've always thought of post-hostilities as a phase' distinct from combat, he said. 'The future of war is going to be much more of a continuum.
"'This is the future of the world we're in at the moment,' he said. 'We'll get better at it as we do it more often.'
Now that's scary.
What exactly does this mean? Are we already planning more military adventurism, before we even finish the other two wars we are in right now? Was Iraq just a practice run for the PNAC policy-makers and the command staff of the Pentagon? Is this the future we have to look forward to? How many foreign "regimes" do we need to change before our jingoistic "leaders" will be sated with bloodshed?
Here's the link to the LA Times article: Preparing for War, Stumbling to Peace
It's a bit on the long side, but well worth the time spent, IMHO.
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"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2003 : 05:28:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
What exactly does this mean? Are we already planning more military adventurism, before we even finish the other two wars we are in right now? Was Iraq just a practice run for the PNAC policy-makers and the command staff of the Pentagon? Is this the future we have to look forward to? How many foreign "regimes" do we need to change before our jingoistic "leaders" will be sated with bloodshed?
Maybe, the neo-cons have grandiose schemes for world conquest, but this Administration has been bumbling it's way through foriegn affairs like Lucy and Ethel in the candy factory.
Then, came war--And we're still fighting both of them, and about to get involved in another as unstable as Somalia. I don't think these guys have realized that the American people are beginning to get tired of sending young men and women overseas, only for a few of them to come back draped in a flag.
Finally, with Jessica Lynch finally getting to return home, has anyone heard what has become of an investigation into the staged rescue? I honestly feel terrible about what that young lady has already been through, only to find herself in the center of a controversy born of another's deceit. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 10:02:01 [Permalink]
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Who are Lucy and Ethel? 
But seriously folks, I think Private Lynch must be at least a little complicit in the deception, though undoubtedly she's "only following orders" - but wasn't that defence used at Nuremberg?
I don't know what the status is with the investigation into this so-called "rescue", but if anyone has heard something recently, please apprise us of the situation. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:25:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Who are Lucy and Ethel?
Sorry, Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance playing Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz in the I Love Lucy Show. The reference was to a slapstick routine on a candy assembly line. I do not recall the name of the particular episode.
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:27:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
Who are Lucy and Ethel?
But seriously folks, I think Private Lynch must be at least a little complicit in the deception, though undoubtedly she's "only following orders" - but wasn't that defence used at Nuremberg?
I don't know what the status is with the investigation into this so-called "rescue", but if anyone has heard something recently, please apprise us of the situation.
Lucy & Ethel, from the I Love Lucy show, were two bumbling ladies who were forever getting bailed out of silly situations by their husbands, Ricky and Fred. It was one of the first sit-coms, and that'll give you an idea of how far back I go.
As for Ms. Lynch, I don't blame her for staying silent. She was badly injured in a war zone and was very lucky to have survived at all. The last thing she needs is a bunch of assholes, most if not all of whom never wore the uniform, shouting idiotic questions at her. The 'truth' is already pretty much known, to the shame of the propagandists.
Me, I wish her all the best.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 14:30:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for Ms. Lynch, I don't blame her for staying silent. She was badly injured in a war zone and was very lucky to have survived at all. The last thing she needs is a bunch of assholes, most if not all of whom never wore the uniform, shouting idiotic questions at her. The 'truth' is already pretty much known, to the shame of the propagandists.
Me, I wish her all the best.
Agree. Leave the woman alone and let her get on with life. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 15:30:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
quote:
Who are Lucy and Ethel?
Sorry, Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance playing Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz in the I Love Lucy Show. The reference was to a slapstick routine on a candy assembly line. I do not recall the name of the particular episode.
Showing you age there Tim..... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 17:06:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
quote:
Who are Lucy and Ethel?
Sorry, Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance playing Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz in the I Love Lucy Show. The reference was to a slapstick routine on a candy assembly line. I do not recall the name of the particular episode.
Actually Tim, that was a rhetorical question. Notice the clown? I was just being silly, to lighten up the somber mood of this thread.  But thanks for caring! |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 21:38:43 [Permalink]
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Today, something related to the OP turned up in my extremely wide net cast out over the Internet for psoriasis information. Another blog, no less: IMAO. The author's got a parody of McClellan's first day on the job, including this small bit:quote:
"...Anyway, my question is about North Korea and Iran: when will we annihilate them?"
"We don't plan to annihilate anyone," Scott laughed, "There is a diplomatic solution..."
"There is a diplomatic solution," Melinda [a Fox Reporter] repeated in a mocking tone, "Doesn't the president know we pay tax money and want more dead foreigners as a result?"
Not saying that it answers Walt's questions or anything, it's just a coincidental blog hit. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Julie_Bris
New Member
Australia
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 21:43:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
quote:
What exactly does this mean? Are we already planning more military adventurism, before we even finish the other two wars we are in right now? Was Iraq just a practice run for the PNAC policy-makers and the command staff of the Pentagon? Is this the future we have to look forward to? How many foreign "regimes" do we need to change before our jingoistic "leaders" will be sated with bloodshed?
Maybe, the neo-cons have grandiose schemes for world conquest, but this Administration has been bumbling it's way through foriegn affairs like Lucy and Ethel in the candy factory.
Then, came war--And we're still fighting both of them, and about to get involved in another as unstable as Somalia. I don't think these guys have realized that the American people are beginning to get tired of sending young men and women overseas, only for a few of them to come back draped in a flag.
Finally, with Jessica Lynch finally getting to return home, has anyone heard what has become of an investigation into the staged rescue? I honestly feel terrible about what that young lady has already been through, only to find herself in the center of a controversy born of another's deceit.
Tim don't forget Liberia is on the agenda also. It may be a so called peacekeeping mission, but i don't like the chances of all soldiers returning home in one piece. 
P.S. As for the Lynch saga, if you haven't watched "WAG THE DOG" i highly recommend that you take the time to view it as it clearly depict the deception and deceit of the USA administrations.
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My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, racism and arrogance. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 21:48:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
quote:
Originally posted by Tim
quote:
Who are Lucy and Ethel?
Sorry, Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance playing Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz in the I Love Lucy Show. The reference was to a slapstick routine on a candy assembly line. I do not recall the name of the particular episode.
Actually Tim, that was a rhetorical question. Notice the clown? I was just being silly, to lighten up the somber mood of this thread. But thanks for caring!
I knew that.
After all, that show is still going on, somewhere, everywhere, no matter what generation one is in.
quote:
But seriously folks, I think Private Lynch must be at least a little complicit in the deception, though undoubtedly she's "only following orders" - but wasn't that defence used at Nuremberg?
Agreed it's all propaganda with Jessica but I hardly think Nuremberg is a fair comparison. No offense Walt.
PS. or was that a joke too? |
| Edited by - Snake on 07/22/2003 21:53:13 |
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Julie_Bris
New Member
Australia
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 21:50:30 [Permalink]
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Personally I think Bush, Clinton, Blair, Howard, Rumsfeld, Albright ..... and the list just goes on and on, should in no way be exempt from standing trial for war crimes. They too have blood on their hands and have performed some despicable acts not just Milosevic and alike.
The problem is they haven't learnt from histories mistakes.
Now some of these jokers want to do the "tango" with Korea!!!
Perhaps they should heed a wise old saying "think before you leap"
I know the saying goes "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again"
but how many more lives have to be lost before these jokers get their heads out of each others %*$^# and get their act together?
Perhaps a good wake up call would be if their sons or daughters were in the firing line and came home in a flag draped coffin.
Below is yet another wooopppppsssssss
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Blunder in the Balkans
The Clinton Administration's Bungled War against Serbia
by Christopher Layne
Christopher Layne is a visiting scholar at the Center for International Studies at the University of Southern California and a MacArthur Foundation Fellow in Global Security.
Executive Summary
The Clinton administration has made one miscalculation after another in dealing with the Kosovo crisis. U.S. officials and their NATO colleagues never understood the historical and emotional importance of Kosovo to the Serbian people, believing instead that Belgrade's harsh repression of the ethnic Albanian secessionist movement in Kosovo merely reflected the will of President Slobodan Milosevic of Yugoslavia. The administration's foreign policy team mistakenly concluded that, under a threat of air strikes, the Yugoslav government would sign a dictated peace accord (the Rambouillet agreement) to be implemented by a NATO peacekeeping force in Kosovo. Even if Milosevic initially refused to sign the Rambouillet agreement, administration leaders believed that Belgrade would relent after a brief "demonstration" bombing campaign. Those calculations proved to be disastrously wrong.
President Clinton and his advisers justified their decision to use force with two arguments: that NATO bombing was needed to prevent a Serbian military offensive in Kosovo with attendant "ethnic cleansing," and that vigorous action was essential to prevent the Kosovo conflict from spilling over into neighboring states, thereby destabilizing the southern Balkans. Administration leaders also hoped that NATO pressure would undermine Milosevic's political power and embolden the democratic opposition in Serbia. The bombing campaign has been wholly counterproductive with regard to all three objectives.
Administration officials have committed miscalculations eerily reminiscent of faulty U.S. assumptions during the Vietnam War. Those mistakes include overestimating the effectiveness of air power; underestimating the willingness of the target government and population to fight for their homeland; and demonizing the opposing political leader, thus making a negotiated settlement more difficult.
Even if Belgrade finally capitulates, the adverse effects of the administration's actions already constitute a policy fiasco. Instability in the Balkans is far worse than before the bombing. Relations with Russia are now at their worst point since the darkest days of the Cold War. And the bombing of China's embassy in Belgrade has caused a serious rift in the Sino-American relationship. NATO's bombing campaign has produced a humanitarian catastrophe in Kosovo, the rest of Serbia, and neighboring countries. Good intentions alone cannot excuse the negative consequences of U.S. Kosovo policy.
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My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, racism and arrogance. |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2003 : 10:05:04 [Permalink]
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| It seems it doesn't matter which party is in the White House - our government just can't seem to do anything right. And they think we should rule the world? Might as well put the Keystone Cops in charge! |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2003 : 10:06:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
PS. or was that a joke too?
Well, it was kind of a joke, but not in very good taste. Sorry. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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josh hill
New Member
Australia
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 04:21:07 [Permalink]
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| in relation to the woman who was rescued in iraq, did anyone notice that there was an african-american lady who was also apparently rescued as well, but who didn't recieve a 'ticker-tape parade' when she got home.... *coughracismcough* |
josh |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 16:51:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
It seems it doesn't matter which party is in the White House - our government just can't seem to do anything right. And they think we should rule the world? Might as well put the Keystone Cops in charge!
Ah, it's ok Walt. The poor taste, which I didn't think of, wasn't the point. Just the comparison seemed out of scale. Don't give it a thought.
I love your comment about the Keystone Cops and our gov., it is SO true.
I'm just about to send a letter (which I posted to my egroup) to my congressman about something P. Bush just said in the news.
Would like to include your little insight, above.
Bravo! |
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