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Badman
New Member
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2003 : 10:40:19
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I saw no entry in my Encyclopaedia Britannica about Paganism so i thought i would bring it up here. Not that i read encyclopaedias in my spare time or anything 
Now, let me start by saying that it is my understanding that GENERALLY Witches, Wizards, or Wiccans are also Pagans. This makes sense to me. Why? Because monotheism doesn't bode well with freedom (and harming others) and Buddhism doesn't supply space for 'lower' practises such as magic, psychism etc in favour of enlightenment.
I know not much about Paganism save that it seems to be the worship of nature. But why SUPER-nature? And why should i worship a nature that has no emotions? If your God is nature, my question to you is why i should worship a tornado? A hurricane? A flood? An earthquake? Cancer?
Now to the controversial bit. Witches and Pagans? Since when has supernatural phenomena become part of nature? Before the human race existed? Did dinosaurs have psychic powers? Can crocodiles cast spells? Do cockroahes fly on brooms? And tell me why you believe you can affect objective reality with your thoughts in the form of a spell with intent to harm another? Was it because the law of chance intervened and convinced you that you could do it? Was it that your success rate is perfect? And here is the biggest piece of bull of them all. Witches arguing amounst themselves about their particular branch of wizardry! Did you ever see a white witch agree with a black witch what exactly WITCH IS?
SOmeone pass me some toilet paper. I need to wipe my bum.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2003 : 16:28:19 [Permalink]
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| It's important here to define 'pagan'. Without the capital-P, a person who is not Christian, Mulsim, or Jewish is a pagan. With a capital-P, I've heard so many different defintions (including "biker gang") that the word itself is practically meaningless. Druids, for example, are often pagans (sometimes not), but are they Pagans? Damn hard to say. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 17:09:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
It's important here to define 'pagan'. Without the capital-P, a person who is not Christian, Mulsim, or Jewish is a pagan. With a capital-P, I've heard so many different defintions (including "biker gang") that the word itself is practically meaningless. Druids, for example, are often pagans (sometimes not), but are they Pagans? Damn hard to say.
Pagan is really short for P.A.G.A.N which stands for
P eople
A gainst
G oodness
A nd
N ormalcy
Which seems to define anything not WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant).
At least I learned that from the movie "Dragnet" starring Dan Aykroyd and Tom Hanks.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 07:40:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Badman
I saw no entry in my Encyclopaedia Britannica about Paganism so i thought i would bring it up here. Not that i read encyclopaedias in my spare time or anything
Now, let me start by saying that it is my understanding that GENERALLY Witches, Wizards, or Wiccans are also Pagans. This makes sense to me. Why? Because monotheism doesn't bode well with freedom (and harming others) and Buddhism doesn't supply space for 'lower' practises such as magic, psychism etc in favour of enlightenment.
I know not much about Paganism save that it seems to be the worship of nature. But why SUPER-nature? And why should i worship a nature that has no emotions? If your God is nature, my question to you is why i should worship a tornado? A hurricane? A flood? An earthquake? Cancer?
Now to the controversial bit. Witches and Pagans? Since when has supernatural phenomena become part of nature? Before the human race existed? Did dinosaurs have psychic powers? Can crocodiles cast spells? Do cockroahes fly on brooms? And tell me why you believe you can affect objective reality with your thoughts in the form of a spell with intent to harm another? Was it because the law of chance intervened and convinced you that you could do it? Was it that your success rate is perfect? And here is the biggest piece of bull of them all. Witches arguing amounst themselves about their particular branch of wizardry! Did you ever see a white witch agree with a black witch what exactly WITCH IS?
SOmeone pass me some toilet paper. I need to wipe my bum.
My goodness. I do have some work here, don't I.
OK.
Wizards: Flashy things. Appear in books as plot devices and major characters. Do not exist in the real world.
Witch: A term denoting the prationer of several different faiths. Originally from a term meaning "wise one". Can refer to Wiccans and other Neo-pagans as well as cults passing themselves off as Wiccan or Satanist.
White Witch: Practioner of a religion which focuses on peace and love. Does not pray for power.
Black Witch: Prationer of Satanism or other faith or cult interested in praying for power.
Wicca: Nature based religion. Sees a central creative force in the universe coupled with a destructive force with the intent to build something better. Stresses respect for nature, not worship. Prays for peace and change within themselves for the better.
Pagans: Non-Christian religions.
PAGAN: A biker gang in Dragnet. Stands for People Against Goodness And Niceness.
Since the term witch pertains to a very large number of faiths, it would be normal for a group of people called witches to discuss differences of opinion on what those terms mean. Also, Wicca is a personalized religion. There are a few major guiding tenants such as in all that Wiccans do, they may not do harm.
Supernatural phenomenon refers to the things that the Catholic Church deemed sinful. Things they did not try to understand.
dinosaurs psychic: irrelevant. Psychic refers to a minor, non-require part of the Wiccan faith.
Crocs casting spells: irrelevant. Spells are equvalent to prayer.
Flying on brooms: doesn't happen. Practioners of some Wiccan subsects will go out into the fields and drag brooms between their legs as a fertility rite. This was later interpreted as the ability to fly in the Maleous Maleficarum of 1486. Really, much of your perception seems to be stemming from this particular document which has been etched into the common perception. It has no truth in it.
I've been a practicing Wiccan for 14 years. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 08:25:03 [Permalink]
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Dancer wrote:
quote:
Supernatural phenomenon refers to the things that the Catholic Church deemed sinful. Things they did not try to understand.
Supernatural means beyond nature or normal. In other words outside the natural or physical laws. Such as riding a broom, predicting the future, reading minds, turning a prince into a toad....
The Catholic church believes in the supernatural - dead people coming back to life, people walking on water, turning water into wine (without grapes and fermintation).... |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 10:02:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Dancer wrote:
quote:
Supernatural phenomenon refers to the things that the Catholic Church deemed sinful. Things they did not try to understand.
Supernatural means beyond nature or normal. In other words outside the natural or physical laws. Such as riding a broom, predicting the future, reading minds, turning a prince into a toad....
The Catholic church believes in the supernatural - dead people coming back to life, people walking on water, turning water into wine (without grapes and fermintation)....
Part of this also refered to herbalism and midwivery. Things that the Catholic church as well as those others ascribed to the pagan belief system. Herbalism was not understood and deemed to be "of the Devil". Since the pagan beliefs stemmed from nature, supernatural would have to take on the meaning that the Catholics ascribed to it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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