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gilmork
New Member
6 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2003 : 15:19:14
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Something I've noticed about Christians in general - a lot of them don't have a problem with Christianity because they don't even understand the basic tenets of their religion. It's hard for me to understand how anyone could believe in the ill constructed house of cards that is Christianity, but it makes a lot more sense if you approach it with the realization that many Christians don't have the slightest idea what their religion says.
Here, in a nutshell, is the basic tenet of Christianity:
1. People are unworthy of going to heaven.
2. God, being a bloodthirsty sort, requires some sort of blood sacrifice to MAKE people worthy of going to heaven.
3. The destruction of small animals still doesn't make people quite worthy, so God decides a bigger sacrifice is necessary.
4. God looks around for a sacrifice that would be suitably bloody, and spots his kid (probably loafing around and playing video games or something). Sensing a perfect opportunity to both teach the kid a lesson he'll never forget and save humanity at the same time, God decides that his kid is just the ticket.
5. God sends his only child down to Earth and has him killed in a particulary cruel and bloody way.
6. God's son having taken the place of the aforementioned animal sacrifice, a new rule is put into place: The only way to get into heaven is to accept the sacrifice God made. Good deeds are completely irrelevant. Bringing new people into your religion is completely irrelevant. Even the Ten Commandments are completely irrelevant. The ONLY way to get to heaven is to accept this large blood sacrifice that God has plopped at the feet of humankind. The theory being that once you've proven that you're the kind of person who would accept said gory event as your ticket to heaven, you won't WANT to violate the ten commandments, or rob banks, or have gay sex, or whatever your hangup is, anymore.
I think that about covers it.
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Edited by - gilmork on 11/26/2003 15:27:56
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 17:17:20 [Permalink]
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Welcome to Skeptic Friends, gilmork! 
Yeah, I think that just about sums it up. Isn't it interesting that atheists seem to know more about Christianity than do the Christians?
I myself have read the Bible 3 times cover to cover, and have studied it fairly in-depth. I wonder what the percentage is of Christians who've read it all the way through. Anyone got any numbers on that?
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"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 19:38:10 [Permalink]
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| Personally, I found that summary to be both juvenile and ignorant -- a little like some 11 year old bully mocking his little sister because she still believes in Santa Clause. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 19:42:15 [Permalink]
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Actually, in fairness, gilmork's rundown (welcome to SFN!) only applies to some Christians. There are plenty of them who believe instead that "good deeds" are the only way into Heaven, and so even people with no faith in Christ can still wind up avoiding the Lake of Fire.
I'm not sure where the dividing line stands, but I'm under the impression that the "faith-only" crowd was largely Protestant. Certainly the U.S. Southern Fundamentalists (the "loudest" of the "faith-only" believers) fall under that umbrella.
I also feel that, so far as the Fundamentalists go, it's important to highly emphasize in point #6 that it doesn't matter how many "sins" a person commits, if they "accept Jesus" all sins (past, present, and future) are null and void. "Deathbed conversions" being somewhat popular, I've often wondered just how many complete jerks are in Heaven. At least one that I know of, and I'd rather not share Eternity with him. So, just to be on the safe side, I'll keep not accepting Jesus.
Hey, does this mean I've found the polar opposite to Pascal's wager? "Heaven sounds like it might be a nasty place, so I reject all chances of going to Heaven because the descriptions of Hell seem mild by comparison." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 20:04:36 [Permalink]
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Welcome, Gilmork. 
Most Christians I know pick and choose what they embrace and what they reject about their religion. That actually seems preferable to what fundamentalists or Bible literalists seem to do, which is to completely stop thinking critically. 
Like Dave said, one of the most insane parts of Christianity, to me, is the absolution of the most horrific sins--so long as you accept Jesus in your heart. Apparently Ted Bundy is in heaven, and I'm hell-bound. I'm no saint but I wager I'm a better person than a serial killer. Hmpf.  |
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gilmork
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 22:16:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Personally, I found that summary to be both juvenile and ignorant -- a little like some 11 year old bully mocking his little sister because she still believes in Santa Clause.
You'd better believe I'd mock my little sister if she believed in Santa Claus. Of course, she's 25...
Admittedly, I'm coming at this from a perspective of someone raised in a Southern Baptist church. I probably should have narrowed down my little tirade and not just used the catchall term "Christians"... |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 23:20:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
...Most Christians I know pick and choose what they embrace and what they reject about their religion...
Hehe. I'd wager that applies to just about anyone who practices or believes in ANY religion, for better or worse.  |
Paladin |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 02:38:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin
quote:
...Most Christians I know pick and choose what they embrace and what they reject about their religion...
Hehe. I'd wager that applies to just about anyone who practices or believes in ANY religion, for better or worse.
Ah, damn it Paladin. Once again you said exactly what I was going to say...probably in a better way anyway.
Usually it's the converts who study up on a religion more so than someone who is raised up in one who know it better. LOL, almost to the point of being obnoxious and technical about it.
Snake |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 05:01:47 [Permalink]
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"All religions are confusing. That's what keeps priests in business." -- shamelessly stolen from; The Last Tomb
Welcome Gil and Woody!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 05:27:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gilmork
Admittedly, I'm coming at this from a perspective of someone raised in a Southern Baptist church. I probably should have narrowed down my little tirade and not just used the catchall term "Christians"...
Actually, I was referring to your characterization of the Bible and, in particular, the OT - I agree that the sequel has little to redeem it. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 06:06:25 [Permalink]
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Gilmork, most people believe in odd things. It's not Christianity--It's the need to want something more than the poor saps already have. Christianity is simply the local flavor of the month, or in this case, the last couple of thousand years.
I believe most of the long term members of this little rant club have been over the reasons people hold illogical belief systems more than a few times. I'm also aware of the fact that a few here haven't. Maybe, it's time to take up the question of why people need to believe once more.
Or, maybe it's just time to read some old threads?
edited to add... I forgot to say that people around these parts believe in Christianity because their culture tells them that it's what you're supposed to believe in, and indoctrinate us thusly from birth. Indoctrination often limits the need for the priest class to answer too many truly thoughtful questions.
As for the notion that the Atheists and other assorted self-proclaimed skeptics know more about certain religions than the true believers, that may be true. However, I would think that this is simply due to being in a minority belief system, and having to understand where the attacks are going to come from. The status quo doesn't like being challenged.
Anyway, Gilmork....Welcome. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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| Edited by - Tim on 11/25/2003 06:21:10 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 06:49:58 [Permalink]
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What was stated were the facts about some Christians with no ad hominems at all. Gilmork didn't even call Christians juvenile and ignorant.
Actually, I think most Christians don't really believe much of anything. They just think they need to.
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Personally, I found that summary to be both juvenile and ignorant -- a little like some 11 year old bully mocking his little sister because she still believes in Santa Clause.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/25/2003 06:51:42 |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 19:09:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
What was stated were the facts about some Christians with no ad hominems at all.
You confuse characterization with ad hominem. Have you read Summa Theologica or, perhaps, the works of Schweitzer? |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 03:45:46 [Permalink]
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No. I said nothing about characterizations being ad hominem. What I said was that Gilmork did not use ad hominems.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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