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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2004 : 14:10:36 [Permalink]
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No one NEEDS superstition. We can all live - probably much better -without it.
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Since I started off as a Christian, I waded through the Bible as I was evaluating its relavance and congruence with church doctorine. People remain theists because they have a need for something higher than themselves and a need for mysticism. Since atheists do not have these needs, it is logical they would not have theological constructs. It's just a different path.
The way I see it, atheists have no interest in any religious text as it has no relevance to their life. Not so much that it renders the document a collection of stories, but that it has no relavence to the individual.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 14:12:44 [Permalink]
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Just a comment:
Some may not want to have anything to do with the bible, but an inescapable fact is, if you live in the West the bible has had an effect on your life. I don't see how you can fully understand western civilization without understanding the bible and how it has influenced the world you live in... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 14:35:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ivanisavich
I apologize.
I don't accept it. If you are talking to me.
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Then how, may I ask, do you know it's all just a bunch of stories if you know nothing about it?
I know enough to understand that people don't live to be 900 years old or that someone can talk to a person who's supposed to have been dead for three days.
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The reason I wrote "your ignorance is astounding" is because your lack of knowledge on a subject that you are trying to argue against is incredible.
We are just posting our thoughts. This isn't a true debate.
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Have you ever opened a Bible, and dare I say, READ any of it?
I've never read 'Sleeping Beauty' either but I know the story. I don't believe someone can fall asleep for years and be awakened by a prince because a wicked witch put a spell on them.
Seems to me one doesn't have to read a book all the way though to know they wouldn't like it or that it made no sense.
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If I ran into this forum saying "I know nothing about science or evolution, but it is definitely a hoax!" I would be no better off than you are now. Please don't cheat yourself with your own quick judgements before making a better case for your own beliefs.
That's not the same thing. Science has proof and as I keep saying, the bible is stories. Stories that were translated from languages and thoughts from generation long ago (lost in translation), science stays the same. If someone says science is a hoax they could be shown otherwise but when you make up a story that have been handed down how can you believe what really happened? 'Eye wittness' can be faulty anyway, (those who wrote the bible IMO can't be trusted to give a true account either) it is right to be skeptical. Whereas science has something that can be seen. If one chooses to not believe science, then they are ingornant and should be taught but to choose not to believe what's in the bible is a matter of opinion and faith. It's a waste of time to read with what I don't have faith. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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| Edited by - Woody D on 01/02/2004 15:15:20 |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 14:39:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
The way I see it, Woody has a legitimate point of view (and one I share.)
We're all ignorant of any number of things, but few of us appreciate being labeled "ignorant", even on the Internet.
So kind of you Rene, and understanding. Thank you very much.
Snake |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:06:09 [Permalink]
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I once thought that the Bible taught us that we should not kill. But apparently this is not true.
I read a poll posted on the Rapture Ready Bulletin Board about how they think the bible preaches. 67% of the voters think that under the right circumstances it is ok to kill someone. Like shooting a burglar in self defence, frying Saddam Hussein in the Electric chair, or being a soldier in the Great Nation's army.
Only 32% thought killing was unacceptable regardless of circumstance.
Are there other Christian forums where this question could/has been posed?
What does Hippy4Christ think, and what are your argumentation for your decision |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 17:22:29 [Permalink]
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Woody:
I was not apologizing for calling you ignorant. I was apologizing for not saying why I felt so.
And apparantly, it seems that after reading your last few replies, you've simply proven my point
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That's a good question Dr. Mabuse...I've gotta log off for the moment, but later tonight when I get back on I'll try and shed some light on the dilemma. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 17:26:09 [Permalink]
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| You are accusing him of being ignorant of something that has no benefit to anyone. So what? He has said that he is ignorant of it, so what's your point? I've never bought child pornography either. I don't know where to buy it or how. Is that a bad thing? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 17:48:06 [Permalink]
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Does anybody have any opinions on whether or not another attempt at life support for this thread would be worth the effort?
Dr. Mabuse, the way I understand things is that the current consensus is that the Bible says, "thou shalt not murder." It has to do with intent. In other words, stabbing your neighbor because he slept with your wife is murder, and thus a sin, but stabbing your neighbor because he was trying to club you is self-defense, and so not prohibited.
When looking at Exodus 20:13 in many Bibles, it's clear that "murder" outnumbers "kill" by a good margin.
Of course, by Old Testament rules, if God tells you to murder, go right ahead and do so.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 19:48:04 [Permalink]
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Nuts, you beat me to it Dave...
I agree. There is definitely a difference between killing and murder. Murder by definition is killing unlawfully, therefore, if the killing is done in order to achieve justice under the law, it is not sin. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 19:51:43 [Permalink]
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| Sorry, ivanisavich, didn't mean to steal your thunder. Of course, you did put the distinction into a better set of words than I did. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 21:41:05 [Permalink]
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| Heh heh...don't worry about it... |
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hippy4christ
Skeptic Friend
193 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 15:47:13 [Permalink]
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Hello all, glad you could join us.
I would like to state that (probably) every one of my doctrines is supported by one Christian denomination or another, but every denomination disagrees with most of my other doctrines. I'd also like to say that I'm so conservative that some people think I'm a liberal.
Dr., Dave, the question of murder/kill is one big can of worms, which I am still trying to resolve myself, but I presently come down on the side that says that we shouldn't kill people at all(unless Yahweh himself manifested before me and told me to do so). As to the Old Testament views, I believe that Yahweh was not pleased with sending the Israelites to war, and wished that they had chosen to go out and convert the Canaanites, et al. My main two reasons for this are:
1) The entire New Testament teaches pacifism.
2) Ezekiel 20:25 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgements whereby they should not live;"
I'm still working out the specifics of the doctrine, but when Jesus stated that we have to love our enemies(Matt. 5:44), that pretty much sealed it for me. I simply don't believe anyone that says that they can kill people without hating them. In a euthanasia situation, maybe, just maybe, but the line is very fuzzy.
As to other Christian forums, I go to www.theologyforums.com
I have the same screen name there.
Hippy |
Faith is believing what you are told, whether it's by a priest or a scientist. A person's scientific beliefs are ones based on personal observation and experimentation.
Lists of Logical Fallacies |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 20:48:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Woody's protest appears to be that it's a waste of time to argue with a believer with the intent of changing his/her mind.
Most of the time, I believe she's he's right.
Thank god for small favors.
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But, so far, I don't think anyone in this thread has been trying to dissuade Hippy from his beliefs in general (in particulars, yes, but he's said he came here to challenge his faith), and neither has Hippy been proselytizing with the intent of converting us poor heathens.
Where in his post did Hippy say he's challenging his faith? He titled the folder 'Misconceptions about the bible' and all I did was make a comment (and not even to Hippy specifically ) and everyone's getting hysterical. Holly krist!
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www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 20:58:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ivanisavich
Woody:
I was not apologizing for calling you ignorant.
Of course you wouldn't. But I won't go down to your level to comment further about you.
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And apparantly, it seems that after reading your last few replies, you've simply proven my point
Don't know what you mean by that, probably isn't important anyway. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 21:11:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by hippy4christ
the question of murder/kill is one big can of worms, which I am still trying to resolve myself
While you are trying (to resolve it) can you answer this question?
Not that one....above
This one:
Why doesn't god care about all the creatures he made? I know it has something to do with Man being made in 'his' image but still, why not worry about any of the other animals getting killed/murdered....by Man......for food?
Doesn't god care about the pain all animals go through?
Or, is that one of the misconceptions....that Man is in gods' image or that's why he (Man) shouldn't be killed? |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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