|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2004 : 11:51:17 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by razor
Hello everyone,
I've been frequenting this sight for several months now and it is definitely my favorite. I'm not a very chatty person but something about this thread made we want to jump in and introduce myself. I find it humorous that Valiant Dancer's little brother showed up while he was playing with his grown up friends on this evil skeptics website.
I also split my side thinking about Nfidel 42's post about his wife giving money to Robert Tilton. My wife is a devout christian and I'm a total non-believer which makes for an interesting combination, but thank Jebus she's never given money to that charlatan. I may have had to chop off her head. It also reminded me of some times past (did Dubya call them youthful indiscretions?)of watching that bozo speak in tongues while I was stoned. That was some of the most intense laughter I've ever experienced.
Anyway, I'm glad I found this place and really enjoy reading and learning from everyone here.
Little brother is a bit of a misnomer. He's two years younger than I am and I'm old enough to be President.
Welcome to the board. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2004 : 16:09:08 [Permalink]
|
And a big, "Howdy!" back at'cha, razor. Glad to see you here and we're hoping that you enjoy it.
Looking forward to your input.
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2004 : 22:42:49 [Permalink]
|
i am free to be
I read your message to your brother I am proof what Satan and anyone who thinks you can play around with the darkside and be safe...you are mistaken and decieved in your own beliefs.. God help you!! |
freeotbe |
|
|
|
moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 06:26:20 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
i am free to be
I read your message to your brother I am proof what Satan and anyone who thinks you can play around with the darkside and be safe...you are mistaken and decieved in your own beliefs.. God help you!!
It's clear that you believe in a god and satan. Who gave you those beliefs ? Are you now just another sheep in some shepards flock ? It's amazing that your god would give you such a large brain and then ask you not to use it. Even more amazing that you somehow find contentment in these mental constraints.
You will probably just hit and run for a couple of days and then just disappear completely.
Good Luck. I hope you get your life straightened out. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
|
|
|
freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 07:15:16 [Permalink]
|
| You know I used to wonder sometimes why people had such sadness in their life, Well if you look around you will see, answers to our most inner secrets and dreams are not out here, they are in what you believe to be true. I could not find my truth in this world, so I had to find where else could it be, but with one who could totally understand me and it was not in people, people look to people for answers, only God knows our inner secrets and needs.I don't have to search for truth anymore I found it within myself, but had to let go of my past to find it,I am not a male but a female who was abused,abandoned, raped, satanic ritual abuse is real i am a SURVIVOR only because my removing the lies that was put there to make me believe there was no hope or no one would believe me,God had me survive for a reason to tell people there is hope and freedom if you really are tired of all the chains that keep you bound. I really don't care if you believe me or not, I am writing to tell there is a God I know cause I am Alive to tell about his mercy..... |
freeotbe |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 09:41:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
i am free to be
I read your message to your brother I am proof what Satan and anyone who thinks you can play around with the darkside and be safe...you are mistaken and decieved in your own beliefs.. God help you!!
You are mistaken in thinking that I play around with the darkside. I don't. I reject the darkside and live in the light.
It is clear from your further message that you are uninterested in debate, but only in blind prostelyzation. This tends to indicate the same lockstep thinking that my brother suffers from.
Why is it that those who are the least secure in their religious beliefs protest the loudest that they are right?
To your second message, I can only say that contrary to your belief, we do not have lives filled with sadness. I don't. Sure I've had some troubled times, but who hasn't?
You were abused, abandoned, and raped. That's awful. But you claim that this was part of Satanic Ritual Abuse. I find it odd that you do not mention any ritual associated with the aforementioned abuse, abandonment, and rape. This tends to indicate that while what you went through was horrendeous, it was not linked with Satanism what-so-ever. Your claim that SRA exists is still unsubstantiated.
Your profession of faith is duely noted and discarded due to lack of facts and lack of relevance to this discussion. We deal in facts and evidence, here. Now, what about this SRA you've been referencing. Were there rituals during your abuse? Invocations to Satan?
If not, you may be another victim of the Bob Larson ministries. I would suggest reporting the people who hurt you to the authories so that they cannot hurt others and get proffessional psychiatric help to aid you with dealing with what happened to you. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 10:27:57 [Permalink]
|
Thanks for letting us know the problems that can be caused by people who belive in god(s) and spirits. Such beliefs are dangerous, because they are based in the idea that reality is something that should be avoided. Best to stick with science and logic as much as possible and reject such superstitions. Glad you lost your belief in Satan, and hope you've subsequently lost all your beliefs in god(s) and spirits.
quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
You know I used to wonder sometimes why people had such sadness in their life,
|
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
rvarno
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 21:32:39 [Permalink]
|
Well, well, well. Here we go. First and foremost let me say that I appreciate your thoughtful and non-offensive replies. I would also like to say, that there is nothing wrong with using the brain that God gave you. If more people had exercised healthy skepticism, then maybe we wouldn't be trying to convince 2nd graders that we all evolved from some warm pile of sludge. Anyways, I am very much enjoying this dialogue. I am really getting a lot better idea of what goes on in that head of yours. If at anytime you want to take this offline, I will respect that, but this seems to be a medium you are comfortable with (no pun intended, ok, maybe a little) so I will continue the discourse and answer some of the points brought up by you and others.
quote:
A few points, little bro.
quote:
The whole ‘little' brother thing. Younger would be a better term. Truth be told, I am actually bigger, better looking and can still beat you up if memory serves correctly. (Hey, we're brothers so I can talk like that) 
quote:
1) I think anyone who devotes their lives to such a branch of Christianity that is so far off the mainstream that it revels in it has some serious problems.
You seem to be genuinely concerned about what I believe (and have proven to be true by way of study and experience), so let me shed a little light on the subject. We are actually pretty mainstream in our life and beliefs. True, because of the nature of the ministry we have been called to, we deal with more of the supernatural than your average Christian. But frankly, if the average Christian had been doing this sort of thing for the past 2000 years like Jesus told them to, we wouldn't be so busy. Here goes:
- I believe that the Bible is the written Word of God. (I prefer the authorized King James Version, not for the Thee's and Thou's, but because it is based on better original documents, not ones that were revised by a 5th century Egyptian black magician) I believe in a literal translation. I.E. “Thou shalt not do murder”, means “That shall not do murder” likewise “Those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts he was raised from the dead shall be saved” means: “Those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts he was raised from the dead shall be saved” I believe that scripture should be taken in the context it was written, with regard to the full counsel of the Word of God. The intake of sound bible doctrine (not having demons cast out of you) is the most important thing in a believer's life. There is no substitute for reading, studying, understanding and living the Word.
- I believe that the universe was created by the Father (God, Eloheim, Jehova, I AM) Man was created in His image and given dominion over the earth. Man lost this dominion when Adam and Eve followed the advise of the serpent (Devil, Satan, aka Biggest Loser of all time) Because of His love and mercy, God could not leave His creation in such a fallen state, and sent his Son, Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One) to live a perfect life on this earth and then pay the price for our sins by being crucified. After three days, God raised Him from the dead, at which time He appeared to over 500 people and then was taken up to Heaven.
- I believe that He sent the Holy Spirit (Comforter, Counselor, Spirit of Truth) on the day of Pentecost to the upper room, where the 120 were filled with power from on high, and t |
| Edited by - Boron10 on 01/27/2005 20:06:08 |
|
|
|
rvarno
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 21:38:44 [Permalink]
|
Whoops, forgot one...
quote:
6) In my bookcase next to the Bible and Wiccan books, there is also a copy of the Baglavad Gita. I attended my wife's church while my oldest son was going through confirmation. I did not convert. Nor have I attempted to convert my wife.
Unfortunate. However, I must admit it was pretty enjoyable listening to you "renouce Satan and all of his works" at the christening.
|
|
|
|
rvarno
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2004 : 21:41:47 [Permalink]
|
| P.S. Sorry for the formatting problem above, apparently there is no way to edit a post after you hit the button. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2004 : 04:47:08 [Permalink]
|
Sure there is. There's an edit button. The one with the pencil.
quote:
Originally posted by rvarno
P.S. Sorry for the formatting problem above, apparently there is no way to edit a post after you hit the button.
|
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
| Edited by - Gorgo on 01/28/2004 04:47:46 |
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2004 : 06:16:23 [Permalink]
|
My sincere apologies to Val, but rvarno, you scare me. Seriously.
I find your particular brand of spiritual 'guidance' particularly scary. Do you have training and certification as a counselor? If not, then marketing yourself as someone who can treat addiction, heal emotional trauma, or treat mental illness is charlatanism, pure and simple.
I would talk to you about the harm and dysfunction religion has brought to my family since my 11th great-grandmother, a Quaker, was hanged in Boston. But I suspect I'd be walking down a dead-end road with you. You're already using the usual manipulator's tricks (a thinly veiled insult as to whether or not skeptics are 'open-minded', which puts people instantly on the defensive and feeling they need to prove they are, indeed, open-minded.)
Edited to add: You didn't answer my question. I'm still curious as to whether Satan is lurking in my inheritance. |
| Edited by - Renae on 01/28/2004 07:22:16 |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2004 : 08:25:56 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by rvarno
quote:
1) I think anyone who devotes their lives to such a branch of Christianity that is so far off the mainstream that it revels in it has some serious problems.
You seem to be genuinely concerned about what I believe (and have proven to be true by way of study and experience), so let me shed a little light on the subject. We are actually pretty mainstream in our life and beliefs. True, because of the nature of the ministry we have been called to, we deal with more of the supernatural than your average Christian. But frankly, if the average Christian had been doing this sort of thing for the past 2000 years like Jesus told them to, we wouldn't be so busy. Here goes:
Excorcisms as "mainstream"? I don't think so. Since the age of modern medicine (Approx 1880), excorcisms have been extremely rare. Most denominations reject the idea that demons cause illness. Although they do work against evil. (A concept you refer to as Satan.)
quote:
- I believe that the Bible is the written Word of God. (I prefer the authorized King James Version, not for the Thee's and Thou's, but because it is based on better original documents, not ones that were revised by a 5th century Egyptian black magician) I believe in a literal translation. I.E. “Thou shalt not do murder”, means “That shall not do murder” likewise “Those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts he was raised from the dead shall be saved” means: “Those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts he was raised from the dead shall be saved” I believe that scripture should be taken in the context it was written, with regard to the full counsel of the Word of God. The intake of sound bible doctrine (not having demons cast out of you) is the most important thing in a believer's life. There is no substitute for reading, studying, understanding and living the Word.
But yet you forget this little jewel.
Romans 10:12-13
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
And according to the doctorine of the Triune God, calling on God for help will grant salvation. One need not call upon Jesus for salvation. Nor does one necessarily need to be Christian to be worshiping God.
quote:
- I believe that the universe was created by the Father (God, Eloheim, Jehova, I AM) Man was created in His image and given dominion over the earth. Man lost this dominion when Adam and Eve followed the advise of the serpent (Devil, Satan, aka Biggest Loser of all time) Because of His love and mercy, God could not leave His creation in such a fallen state, and sent his Son, Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One) to live a perfect life on this earth and then pay the price for our sins by being crucified. After three days, God raised Him from the dead, at which time He appeared to over 500 people and then was taken up to Heaven.
While the Bible is clear that God created the universe, the mechanism by which He did it is unclear. Likewise, the amount of time it took is unclear. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 01/26/2005 08:39:37 |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2004 : 08:32:43 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by rvarno
Whoops, forgot one...
quote:
6) In my bookcase next to the Bible and Wiccan books, there is also a copy of the Baglavad Gita. I attended my wife's church while my oldest son was going through confirmation. I did not convert. Nor have I attempted to convert my wife.
Unfortunate. However, I must admit it was pretty enjoyable listening to you "renouce Satan and all of his works" at the christening.
The church has decided to name evil as Satan. I renounced that evil in a name that the church understood. My religion does not name evil as we do not name things we are never going to involke. We recognize it exists, we just work for good.
I find it sad that you do not read the religious works of other religions. Instead you rely on the analysis of those works by others. I have studied other religions to gain an understanding of their practioners. I have also discovered through my study that the main tenets of all major and most minor religions are similar. (Don't murder, don't lie, don't steal, etc.) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
rvarno
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 03:13:30 [Permalink]
|
Ok, folks, as much as I am enjoying this, this will probably be my last post here for awhile as things are getting pretty busy. I will try to address what I can at this time.
1. My reasons for posting here are twofold. One, because this topic will come up when someone does a web search on Freedom Keepers, and I wanted to make sure that the full picture was presented. Two, because it has proven to be the most open and honest exchange I have
been able to have with my brother in quite some time. (You say you are concerned about me being off the deep end, I would have to say I
am extremely concerned about the fact you have chosen to pursue witchcraft/wicca in light of what the Bible says about it)
2. Before I go any further, I feel it necessary to state that everything I believe and know to be true is based on the Bible. The proof for everything I have to say comes from His Word. I'm not talking about choosing a religion here, I'm talking about truth and proof. (I will address this later in this post) God has proven Himself to me in very real way since I have made the commitment to serve Him. I am a different person since I was born again. I have seen God be true to His Word. I have personally seen blind eyes opened, deaf ears opened, lame people get up and walk, demons cast out and the dead raised back to life. God loves you. You are very valuable to Him. He paid the ultimate price so He could have a relationship with you. If you surrender your life to Him, and make Jesus the Lord of your life, He will change you, you will become a new person. Now, if you refuse to accept that the Bible is the Word of God, then the rest of this post may seem like foolishness to you. I hope that is not the case. Here goes.
quote:
I find your particular brand of spiritual 'guidance' particularly scary. Do you have training and certification as a counselor? If not,
then marketing yourself as someone who can treat addiction, heal emotional trauma, or treat mental illness is charlatanism, pure and
simple.
Yes. My wife, who does most all of the counseling, is a certified Christian counselor, registered with the American Association of Christian Counselors. (She is also a beautiful, wonderful, intelligent, God fearing woman who has dedicated her life to helping broken, hurting people get free from the bondage and torment of past abandonment and abuse through the power of Jesus Christ)
Furthermore, Jesus is the one who does the healing. We work in conjunction with counselors and physicians to bring wholeness to the person. We do not instruct people to alter their medication without the supervision and knowledge of their physician. I would like to note, though, that many people that have received ministry have been able (under the care of their physician to dramatically reduce or even stop taking anti-depressants, anti-anger medication and other mind and mood altering meds.
quote:
You didn't answer my question. I'm still curious as to whether Satan is lurking in my inheritance.
Generational inheritance deals more with things passed through the bloodline, rather than attachment to a particular object. (Although I have seen it happen when that object was used as a part of ritual magic or other occult activity) What we are talking about here is stuff that goes down through the family line. (Alcoholism, incest, anger, etc...)
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
quote:
Excorcisms as "mainstream"? I don't think so. Since the age of modern medicine (Approx 1880), excorcisms have been extremely rare. Most
denominations reject the idea that demons cause illness. Although they do work against evil. (A concept you refer to as Satan.)
Mainstream to the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles, not to today's church. Read the gospels. Jesus dealt with the demonic just as much as He dealt with sickness and disease. We don't make the Bible fit our current circumstances, we try to get back to what it says that the New Testament Church is to do in the first place.
quote:
But yet you forget this little jewel.
Romans 10:12-13
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
And according to the doctorine of the Triune God, calling on God for help will grant salvation. One need not call upon Jesus for
salvation. Nor does one necessarily need to be Christian to be worshiping God.
Au Contraire my eldest sibling. First, God's salvation is based on covenant. His covenant has been established by Jesus. Second, I earnestly hope that you are not basing your view on this little jewel. Let's look at it in context.
Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Clearly, according to verse 9, the name of the Lord being called upon here is the Lord Jesus
Just for clarity, and to answer your other questions about the Lamb's Book of Life, here are some other supporting verses. Please feel free to look them up for yourself, to make sure they are in context.
John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these mir |
| Edited by - Boron10 on 01/27/2005 20:06:23 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
