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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2003 : 11:35:18
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I'm in the process of reading Skeptical Odysseys. Near the end, there are several essays describing skeptical organizations in countries other than the U.S. (Norway, Italy, Mexico and Russia, if I remember correctly). I was struck by the differences in intent - at some levels - between these groups.
(Please forgive the tentativeness of this post, as I don't have the book with me as I'm writing this. I'll try to remember to include references later on tonight or tomorrow night.)
Particularly, I think it was the Norwegian group which considers itself to be a sort of consumer-protection organization, while CICAP, the Italian group, specifically disavows itself of having any consumer-protection "duties."
And so, I'd like to hear some opinions. Should skeptical groups in general (even such loosely-organized ones as the SFN), accept and pursue consumer-protection roles within their respective communities (and "target audiences")?
If so, does publishing "debunking articles" fulfill that role, or is there some sort of obligation to be more active?
For example, say there's a group called the X-Fools, which is devoted to serious skeptical inquiry of alien visitations. An item in their local news show talked about a local alien abductee, and gave a contact number for a local family counselor specializing in abductions. Would the X-Fools, if they chose to be consumer protectors, fulfill their duty to that end simply by posting a critique of the news item on their web site, or should they also make their opinions more widely known, by writing to the TV station, picketing the counselor's office, or even taking out an ad in their local paper?
Obviously, a group's level of activism is going to be constrained by their income (or by the incomes of the individual members), but the question is this: if a group chooses to accept a consumer-protection role, are "passive" activities (such as putting a report on a web site and hoping people read it) enough to satisfy that self-imposed responsibility?
And I understand that whether or not a group chooses such duties for themselves is largely a matter of personal desire amongst the members, so my first question should really read: "If you were to start a brand-new skeptical group today, would you opt to do consumer-protection sorts of work? Why or why not?"
And for fun: tell us what your group would be skeptical of (or if it's a general skeptical group), and invent a witty name for it. "X-Fools" has been taken. 
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2003 : 12:46:44 [Permalink]
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If ya gotta be a bear, be a grizzly. Furious letters to the editor(s), Legeslature and Congress clowns, wheedle apperrances on the toob, perhaps even demonstrations (but inciment to riot, while satisifying, is ill advised). And so forth.
I would prefer a general skeptic's group that would take on any isssue that they could become well informed upon. Get enough and various skeptics together and you'll be able to cover 'most any subject.
Name(s):
The Thomas Society (might already be taken)
Sagan's Notebook
Fly in the Ointment
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2003 : 07:14:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dave W:
And so, I'd like to hear some opinions. Should skeptical groups in general (even such loosely-organized ones as the SFN), accept and pursue consumer-protection roles within their respective communities (and "target audiences")?
If so, does publishing "debunking articles" fulfill that role, or is there some sort of obligation to be more active?
I think of myself as a consumer advocate. I think skeptics are the first line of defense against those ideas or products that have little or no value, or worse. I may be more active as a skeptic than some but I think simply promoting critical thinking is taking on an activist roll.
When you are pointing out to someone why homeopathics or ear candles cannot work, you are being a consumer advocate and spreading a bit of critical thinking around. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2003 : 12:20:31 [Permalink]
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I must admit I've never been very keen to join any groups at all; to quote a famous french singer, "we're more than 3, we're a bunch of idiots" (bad, bad translation, broad generalisation... the guy was sort of an anarchist). But that's no excuse for staying put, for not doing/saying anything.
In the last year or so, I've been "coming out" to friends and family about my skeptic/atheist bend. I'm still somewhat new at this, but I fell more and more comfortable debating most skeptics subjects with beleivers, sometimes to great effect. I cant say I have "converted" anyone, but I did plant a few seeds of doubt in a few people's minds (mom, my SO to name a few).
As (sort of) a new year resolution, I plan on doing to following: I want to make a one page ad, similar to those "Have you seen my cat?" sheets that people stick to trees, phone boots, etc. Basicaly, I want to plant more "seeds". It would go something like this (again, ugly translation):
(In large letters)
Astrology
Cartomancy
Homeopathy
Numerology
(and in smaller letters)
Skeptical? Get informed! The answers are out there!
(followed by a small list of web sites, such as quackwatch.org, etc, on detachable strips of paper that people get tear off, like the phone numbers of said "Did ya see me cat?" sheet).
It's still in beta test, but you get the idea. What do you think? Usefull, or a waste of paper? I'd like your input on those links too, any suggestion is welcome. |
Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2003 : 03:52:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maglev
(followed by a small list of web sites, such as quackwatch.org, etc, on detachable strips of paper that people get tear off, like the phone numbers of said "Did ya see me cat?" sheet).
It's still in beta test, but you get the idea. What do you think? Usefull, or a waste of paper? I'd like your input on those links too, any suggestion is welcome.
Great idea!
I might consider doing this myself!
My problem is that 99,99% of all those web-sites that come into mind are in English, and while the state of English education in Sweden is better than most non-english countries in the world, they are still not written in our native language.
Perhaps I could take upon myself to translate English web-pages to Swedish for publication.
In such a case, which are the most important (internationally oriented) web-sites to translate? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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Collateralmurder. |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2003 : 09:16:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
My problem is that 99,99% of all those web-sites that come into mind are in English, and while the state of English education in Sweden is better than most non-english countries in the world, they are still not written in our native language.
Perhaps I could take upon myself to translate English web-pages to Swedish for publication.
In such a case, which are the most important (internationally oriented) web-sites to translate?
I have the same problem; I've found a lot of stuff in french, but mostly short articles, not many web sites dedicated to skepticism (which is what I'd like to put on my ad). I have found an (almost) complete translation of quackwatch.org (which is a really good start) and my local skeptics group is currently translating the Skeptics Dictionnary, also a good thing. Personnaly, I'd rather have original material than a translation, but these are valuable references.
To answer Dave's message; My local skeptics group (Les Sceptiques du Quebec) has a clear educational mandate; to quote their web site (this ugly transalation is mine) "The group does not deny the existance of the un-explained or the strange; our skepticism is not a "position", but rather a questionning attitude which aims to promote the advancement of knowledge, to help distingish between subjective beliefs, opinions and established facts". They have a magazine, they organize dinners, conferences, they visit schools, etc... They also offer a prize similar to the JREF prize, and if you manage to win the prize, you are automaticaly eligible to Randi's million dollar prize. They also have a forum on their web site, but it's not as cool as this one  .
It's not a big group, local tv stations rarely even mention their existance, but they are active where it counts (in my opinion), doing some good work all in all.
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Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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