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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2004 : 11:20:28
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Can someone point me to an on-line version of the Jehovah's Witness's "New World Translation" of the Bible? Or, as unlikely as it may be, does someone here have a copy they can provide a passage from?
Tom
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Edited by - TG on 01/20/2004 14:56:28
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 11:33:31 [Permalink]
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Specifically, 2 Sam 24:1-3. The first three verses of the "David takes a census, 70000 Jews die" story.
Tom |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 12:57:42 [Permalink]
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Okay, I've found a third of it, so far:quote:
And again the anger of Jehovah came to be hot against Israel, when one incited David against them, saying: "Go, take a count of Israel and Judah."
-2 Sam 24:1
from bible-only.org
Here's at least a part of the second verse:quote:
2 SAM. 24:2 ("For the king said to Joab the captain of the host...."--KJ, ML, LB, AS, TEV, NWT, NAS, MT, LV) versus ("the king said to Joab and the commanders of the army"--RS, JB, BBE, NEB, NAB, NI). Did the king speak to many or Joab alone?
from Biblical Errancy
Sorry I can't be of more help, but the Witnesses appear to be maintaining control of the NWT pretty well. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 13:49:39 [Permalink]
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Thanks Dave.
You got a lot further than I did. Virtually every version of the Bible is available on-line with the exception of the NWT. Given the liberties (putting it diplomatically) the NWT takes in translating numerous passages, it may be that they would prefer not to have it scrutinized too closely.
Tom |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 15:52:11 [Permalink]
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One of the references I often use is the Bible Gateway, with 17 versions online, searchable, and comparable, but no NWT there.
Finding the stuff above involved putting various combinations of "New World Translation", "2 Sam 24", "2 Samuel", jehovah, witnesses, and/or david into Google. Include the quotes, but not the commas.
I'd be willing to bet that the NWT is on the Witnesses' CD that I saw mentioned as I was tooling around the Web for those 2 Samuel passages. There appear to be a slew of tools available for download which use the data from the CD in various ways, so it may be pretty popular.
Oh, hey: I know at least a couple of people post here from library terminals. Perhaps one of them will notice this thread, and lend a hand? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 20:43:57 [Permalink]
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I have a copy of the JW's bible.
"And again the anger of Jehovah came to be hot against Israel, when one incited David against them, saying "Go, take a count of Isreal and Judah", 2 So the king said to Judah Joab the chief of the military forces who was with him: "Move about, please, through all the tribes of Isreal, frome Dan to Beersheba and you men register the people, and I shall certainly know the number of the people." 3 But Joab said to the king: "May Jehovah your God even add to the people a hundred times as many as they are while the very eyes of my lord the king are seeing it. But as for my lord the king, why has he found delight in this thing?"
This is word for word from the NWT.
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How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?
-- Woody Allen, Without Feathers, 1975 |
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 08:30:55 [Permalink]
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Thanks Rick. And thanks Dave.
Every translation, save the NWT, renders the first verse as "And again the anger of the LORD (or Jehovah) was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah".
I suspect whoever translated the NWT didn't care for the content of this verse, which states that Jehovah moved David to take the census, and later punished him for it. Additionally, if I were a cynic, I might even conclude that the translator was aware of the conflict between 2 Sam 24:1 and 1 Chron 21:1 denoting Satan as David's motivator, and to rid the NWT of this contradictory unpleasantness, he intentionally mistranslated the first verse.
But only a cynic would think that.
Tom
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 09:13:58 [Permalink]
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Oddly, The 21st Century King James Version reads,quote:
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he [Satan] moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."
And Young's Literal Translation reads,quote:
And the anger of Jehovah addeth to burn against Israel, and [an adversary] moveth David about them, saying, `Go, number Israel and Judah.'
And Young's Literal 1 Chron 21:1 isn't too far off:quote:
And there standeth up an adversary against Israel, and persuadeth David to number Israel,
It's the Contemporary English Version which probably has the largest discrepancy. 2 Sam 24:1 reads,quote:
The LORD was angry at Israel again, and he made David think it would be a good idea to count the people in Israel and Judah.
While 1 Chron 21:1 reads,quote:
Satan decided to cause trouble for Israel by making David think it was a good idea to find out how many people there were in Israel and Judah.
The "plain English" of that version makes things pretty messy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 10:52:38 [Permalink]
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Clearly, I shouldn't have said that every translation renders it as "And again the anger of the LORD (or Jehovah) was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them ...". Sweeping generalities are invariably wrong.
More accurately, the KJV, NIV, American Standard, New American Standard, RSV, New Living Translation, and Darby all translate it as "... and he moved David against them ...".
The 21st Century KJV "he [Satan] moved David against them", Young's "[an adversary] moveth David about them", and the NWT's "when one incited David against them" look like blatant editorializing to me.
Tom |
| Edited by - TG on 01/22/2004 12:05:08 |
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