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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2004 : 08:55:06
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The following appeared in my local paper. I was wondering if any of you could provide some ideas for a reply.
quote:
Those with no religion add little to society
In response to "Fastest-growing religious group: `None' " (Jan. 10):Those who have no affiliation with religion deserve pity. "Nones" need the prayers of Christians.
Christians through the centuries have shown their merit in countless ways, such as establishing schools, orphanages, hospitals, relief projects, missions and good government. In contrast, "nones" have little or nothing to show for occupying space on Earth. Surely some of them will get wiser and less self-centered as they grow older.
Don F. Sapp
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 09:31:53 [Permalink]
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Sure. Point out the horrors of Inquisitions, Crusades, and witch hunts, as well as modern-day religious strife (Northern Ireland, the Taliban, Jonestown, Waco, etc.). Remind Mr. Sapp that just a couple of months ago, a child was killed during an exorcism right here in the good 'ol USA.
Explain a few of the many advances in the sciences, arts, etc. which have been made by areligious people, and ask if perhaps Mr. Sapp is too self-centered to have known about them.
Eh, maybe not that last part. Spitting at the guy isn't going to change his mind.
Oh, it's probably most important to get across the message that theists and atheists are probably about equal as far as doling out both nastiness and kindness. While believers in many gods should be nicer to their fellow people, prisons are full of the faithful, world-wide. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 09:39:46 [Permalink]
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| Yes, where would be be without all the free health care that we get at hospitals! Thanks Christians! |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 10:50:52 [Permalink]
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When I read this I found his message to be, "No good deed was ever done by a none believer." And that is the message I would like to counter with a few specific points. However, I thought that I would tap into the knowledge of the members on this site before I wrote my reply.
Being from Charlotte I suspect that most readers of these comments were praising god for Don's wisdom and courage.
Thanks for you input... |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 11:32:47 [Permalink]
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Maokley, the message is also that only the faithful are worthy of "occupying space on Earth," when clearly a lot of people would have been better off if the Inquisitors had never drawn breath.
But, to talk to the point you wish to make, I found a page titled Why Are There No Atheist Charities?, in which you will find several specifically atheist or humanist charities listed, Ted Turner's charity work mentioned, damnations of Christians charities like this:quote:
Thus the chief motivation for Christian "charity" is not love of humanity at all. It is love of Christian dogmas and doctrines. For Christian teachings do not hold that good works are good in themselves. Rather, good works merely serve to show the inward theological correctness that Christians believe is necessary to win entry into heaven and escape damnation. Good works are merely the "signs and wonders" that prove Christianity's divine authority. Most of all, good works are the bait to lure potential converts and the cost of being "saved." All of which demonstrates not that the Christian religion is morally superior, but that it is morally bankrupt.
and some other excellent points, such as Mark R. Hatlie's:quote:
There are few if any explicitly atheist charities. But any and all charities that are not explicitly associated with religion could be considered atheist. They do not accredit their works to a religion or to a god. They are essentially "godless" ("a-theist").
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 13:41:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
The following appeared in my local paper. I was wondering if any of you could provide some ideas for a reply.
It is my experience that atheist (and skeptics in general) are usualy more tolerant and open-minded then believers. They dont do good deeds with the promise of being rewarded, they do it because they feel it's the right thing to do.
Since atheists dont advertize themselves as atheists, how does Mr. Sapp knows how much they bring to society? And one has to wonder what Mr. Sapp would have to say about the contribution of Muslims, etc...
I've lauched a few queries about "atheist good deeds" or "atheist doing good things" over at vivisimo.com (excellent new search engine!) and a few interesting things. Not nearly as much as I would have liked; atheist rarely do good things in the name of atheism. I did find a few interesting things which may inspire/help you in writing your answer:
The Positive Atheism web site.
The Ethical Atheist web site.
The list Celebrity Atheists
Famous Dead Nontheists list.
As an atheist, what good or bad do you think religion does to or for people?
Hope this helps a bit...
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Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 17:26:04 [Permalink]
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| Not only does Dave W. rock, but Maglev you rock too. Thanks for the input. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 22:21:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maglev
It is my experience that atheist (and skeptics in general) are usualy more tolerant and open-minded then believers. They dont do good deeds with the promise of being rewarded, they do it because they feel it's the right thing to do.
Since atheists dont advertize themselves as atheists, how does Mr. Sapp knows how much they bring to society? And one has to wonder what Mr. Sapp would have to say about the contribution of Muslims, etc...
Great answer Maglev.
Moakley, I would however like to know what is the purpose of answering? |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 06:10:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
Moakley, I would however like to know what is the purpose of answering?
I believe that at its best religion can be quite consoling, but at its worst religious intolerance and extremism is the "Root of all kinds of evil". I wanted to point out to Mr Sapp and others that there were good deeds being performed daily by non-believers. That his absolute truth is essentially a blinder closing his mind to this reality. I also see no wisdom adhering to stories contained in a 1700 year old collection of little books whose authors are mostly anonymous.
But the truth is, I have buttons and he pushed one of them. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 17:57:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
But the truth is, I have buttons and he pushed one of them.
Ah yes! I knew that for I too have gotten upset that way in the past. I understand and thank you for your reply.
It's nice that there are those who do want to argue with fundies, etc. I think that unless others (in any situation) know there is opposition they will go on thinking all is well, no one cares and what they are doing is ok.
Just personally I tire easily of talking with people who I feel will never change their point of view. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2004 : 04:11:09 [Permalink]
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Well, call me an evil cretin. I would have simply explained to Mr. Sapp that he's an f'ing idiot. I guess that's why people tell me I'm rude and lack tact? Oh, well...
May be a good reason why my letters to the editor never get published. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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| Edited by - Tim on 01/25/2004 04:12:30 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2004 : 06:03:13 [Permalink]
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I found this reply interesting, but I suspect that Mr. Sapp reacted only with the anger afforded by his absolute truth.
quote:
Was Andrew Carnegie among the worthless?
In response to "Those with no religion add little to society" (Jan. 22 Forum):Among those with no religion who have had "little or nothing to show for occupying their space on Earth" would Mr. Sapp include the atheist Andrew Carnegie?
In 1889 Carnegie, perhaps the world's greatest philanthropist, famously warned, "The man who dies ... rich dies disgraced." He also once quipped, "I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service."
Michael Caracappa
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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