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freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2004 : 07:33:59 [Permalink]
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hello my skeptical friends,
Life is so much better these days, I enjoy this site because I get a better understanding about people and how their brain works, or at least how they percieve others. At least I have your attention when religion is the topic..I don't expect some to understand my philosophies and beliefs that is what makes life so interesting. I can only tell of my experiencesand where i got my answers. You know I see people on Sunday at church put on their sunday faces and look at the sadness in their eyes, and wonder how they can sit so still, cause they are decieving themselves.. I couldn't stand the torment I was in, I needed more than what seemed to be on the surface. I am very curious about how people seem to want to stay in uncertainty, if you stop and remember what real parents are supposed to be like, teach their children right from wrong, that is what religion is about right and wrong, treating people with respect is a start. You can't make people believe what you believe, As for me I can only tell you where I was and how I found strength and hope.. Everyone have a blessed day and seek for your inner most precious fate.God is standing by to help you find it..... |
freeotbe |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 09:30:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
as far as trying to get back at the people that tormented me I can't they are not alive to deal with what they did to me, they are in God's hands, I can only learn to forgive and let God be the judge,I only can deal with my own battles in my hurt and anger and fears, I have lots still to learn but do know I will not have the people that done this me tormenting me in my mind stop me from finding more love, and forgiveness towards my walk, and try to tell of how i am being healed more everyday,
Parents are supposed to love their children, not let no one hurt the ones they love, or hurt their own to get a better seat in hell I am a miracle to have survived, and go on and help others who feel there is no hope, I am a survivor, and god will use me to help someone who has been where I was, If you feel you need to ask me about hopelessness I am at Moonvalley61@aol
And Satan was involved..........how?
Your entire message is predicated on it being Satan's fault, when in reality, people have been known to do some pretty awful stuff. You claimed to be the victim of Satanic Ritual Abuse, yet you have not replied to a message which questioned how you knew it was Satanic.
Again, I pose the questions.
1) Was Satan involked while you were being abused?
2) Was there any ritual used while you were being abused?
If the answer to both questions are No, you may be a victim of Bob Larson Ministries. Please seek professional psychiatric help. From your post, the people who abused you are dead and cannot hurt others. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 10:14:36 [Permalink]
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It is necessary to keep the definitions vague in order to have anyone believe in this nonsense. Once defined they disappear.
quote:
Ah, and therein lies the rub, as the bard has oft been quoted.
God and Satan are metaphysical, therefore, by definition, they cannot be physically defined. 
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 12:06:16 [Permalink]
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freetobe,
quote:
I am very curious about how people seem to want to stay in uncertainty,
I would rather stay in uncertainty with honesty than to accept a dogmatic answer as absolute truth. Uncertainty can be a beautiful thing. Admitting what we don't know is the first step towards humility and a better appreciation of the world/universe/people around us.
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that is what religion is about right and wrong
There are many ways to teach right and wrong, religion happens to be just one of those ways. I personally believe it is an inferior way, but that is simply my opinion and belief based on observation and/or experience.
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You can't make people believe what you believe
Very true.
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As for me I can only tell you where I was and how I found strength and hope..
Great, if that's what works for you, then by all means enjoy. We all have our own ways to find strength and hope. For me its a continuous process and I never stop. I and many others however do not need to believe in any diety to find such things. In fact it kind of waxes my goat when people claim to have absolute truth without even a shred of evidence in support and then go on to tell me how wrong I am and how right they are. |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 14:21:43 [Permalink]
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| Freetobe, I am 19 years old and have grown up, not exactly like you have because I by no means claim to know what you went through, but I went through situations throught my youth and even up until my later teen years that seem to maybe resemble in slight ways what you have mentioned. I have no idea how you feel about it now, but I know how I felt and how I feel and I know that I have a hard road ahead of me, just as you have I'm sure had a hard road to travel. I'm glad to hear that you have found what seems to be some peace after your childhood experiences. |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 14:34:56 [Permalink]
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Also, just to throw this out there, I heard a quote some time ago, and I'm sorry to say that I don't remember it exactly nor can I remember the author, but I will paraphrase it to the best of my ability.
--From a rational point of view, let's look at Christianity, from four different points of view. The first being if there is no God, and I choose to live a life as if there is no God, not recognizing God, then I've lost nothing. If there is a God, and I choose to live my life recognizing God as God, and live according to what the Bible says, then I've gained everything. If there is no God, and I choose to live my life as though there is a God, and live a life according to what the Bible says, then I've lost nothing, rather I've lived a good life worth being proud of. However, if there is a God, and I choose to live my life not recognizing God as God, and live my life according to my own wills and desires, I have a good time, but lose everything.
Just something to kick around:) |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 15:14:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
However, if there is a God, and I choose to live my life not recognizing God as God, and live my life according to my own wills and desires, I have a good time, but lose everything.
No, God supposedly gave us free will and if I have had a good time on earth (as I have) and have not hurt anyone or broken any laws (apart from diving a little fast occasionally) I have had a good time and God would appreciate me using my free will. I've got better things to do on a Sunday than sit in a stuffy building singing bad songs.
If I was going to be religious, it would be in one of those African-American churches that has James Brown singing in it. Like in the Blues Brothers. They have fun, not like us whities singing our morbid hymns.
Anyway, it's all a load of crap.
You get born, you live, you die and then you turn into worm food. We are just like every animal on this planet. Nothing special, just a collection of atoms that moves around, eats, farts and whose purpose is solely to keep the species alive.
What this has to do with the topic, I'm not quite, sure but I have used quite a few words and I'm not about to waste 'em.
So there!!!!!!! |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 15:27:04 [Permalink]
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Jarrid,
What you posted is a version of Pascal's wager, however its critically flawed.
As an example let me add another option to your list.
There is a god, but he is not the God in the Bible. I live my life assuming that there is a God and he is the God of the Bible. I die and God is extremely peeved at me for ascribing all kinds of traits and actions to him that are absolutely not true and quite unflattering (jealousy, anger, regret, killing, etc.). He casts me into a cell for a few thousand years for punishment. (I assume this god is more just than the God of the Bible).
However if I live my life saying I really don't know if there is a god or not, but not really believing there is, then this god would be a little more understanding, knowing he left no credible evidence for me to conclude his existence. Thus knowing I was using my mind and critical thinking skills as he intended for them to be used. Thus he lets me into his paradise and so on.
Of course if there is no god then no matter what I believe has any effect whatsoever on my after-life.
Now what are the odds that if there is a god, its the God of the Bible? How many gods has man created? How many more can man conceive? How many are there that man has not conceived? My odds of picking the right description of god if there is one are almost zero since there is no evidence that points to one god being more likely than another. In fact the evidence seems to point to no gods, so that is where I go.
Also of course your whole wager also assumes that if there is a god, he will punish me for not believing in him (for eternity no less). An absurd proposition to say the least, and if true, then I would want nothing of such a cruel petty tyrant.
edited for spelling |
| Edited by - jmcginn on 02/02/2004 15:28:35 |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 15:41:09 [Permalink]
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gezzam,
There seems to be a flaw in your understanding of free will, rather the intent of free will. Originally, when it was just God and the angels in Heaven, the Angels were forced to worship God, really had no choice about it. God didn't like that, because it didn't prove that they loved Him, because they were forced to worship Him, so He changed that and then created Lucifer with free will, saying that if Lucifer chose to follow Him, then Lucifer would truly love God. It backfired, so God created man with free will, so that IF man chose to serve God, then it would show that man truly loved God. |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 15:49:39 [Permalink]
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jmcginn,
That is one issue i've debated with myself on with that quote...about the existence of maybe another god. about the 'absurd proposition' that God would not punish someone for not believing in him and allow someone into heaven who has not accepted him as Lord--it is actually quite absurd to think that a Holy and Righteous God would not send someone to Hell who had sin in their lives. We are all born into sin, as we all have a sinful human nature in us. Face it--we as humans enjoy indulging ourselves in our own sinful desires. We have all sinned, even Billy Graham and Mother Theresa. God is a Holy God, and to allow someone with sin in their lives due to the fact that they have not come to repentance if nothing else but for the fact that they were born into sin due to Adam's fall would compromise His Holiness and the perfection of Heaven. It would also, in my opinion, not be fair to those who HAD in fact lived a good and holy and just and moral life and had served God and repented of their sins to allow someone who hadn't put any work into their life whatsoever into Heaven. Just my thoughts;) |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 16:00:36 [Permalink]
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Also, gezzam,
--"I've got better things to do on a Sunday than sit in a stuffy building singing bad songs."
If you were to believe this crazy notion of Christianity then you would have a reason to sit in a stuffy building, and the songs wouldnt' be all that bad...actually the songs, from a musicians point of view, are very well written:)
"If I was going to be religious, it would be in one of those African-American churches that has James Brown singing in it. Like in the Blues Brothers. They have fun, not like us whities singing our morbid hymns."
Again, the songs are very well written, even if you have no believe in the words that go along with them. And the hymns aren't always morbid, but a lot of them are rather peppy, in my experience. It depends on the subject matter. And it seems that the church you attended or have gotten your idea of church from is a very dull church...at my church we have a praise and worship band of 6 members, complete with drums and electric guitar...don't find that too dull in my opinion.
"Anyway, it's all a load of crap."
yes, if you need evidence of existence, then it would be a load of crap, but if you can go out on a limb and have faith enough to believe that it is true regardless of evidence, then no, it is not a load of crap:)
"You get born, you live, you die and then you turn into worm food."
You have experienced this? You can back this up? You've born, lived, died, and turned into 'worm food'? I can believe the being born and living part, but not the dying and turning to worm food part.
"We are just like every animal on this planet. Nothing special, just a collection of atoms that moves around, eats, farts and whose purpose is solely to keep the species alive."
what a purpose I tell ya;) but hey again I understand where you are coming from I believe because there is no proof of it so according to the evidence that is our only purpose, sad as it is:(
"What this has to do with the topic, I'm not quite, sure but I have used quite a few words and I'm not about to waste 'em."
It was just something to kick around out of boredom. It seemed like no one had said anything in quite a while
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I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 18:08:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
"You get born, you live, you die and then you turn into worm food."
You have experienced this? You can back this up? You've born, lived, died, and turned into 'worm food'? I can believe the being born and living part, but not the dying and turning to worm food part.
O.K you back up this absurd claims then.
"For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"
I have never seen first hand a body that has been exhumed but I have seen pictures in books and they look like worm food to me.
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--"I've got better things to do on a Sunday than sit in a stuffy building singing bad songs."
If you were to believe this crazy notion of Christianity then you would have a reason to sit in a stuffy building, and the songs wouldnt' be all that bad...actually the songs, from a musicians point of view, are very well written:)
There are a lot of songs that are well written and constructed, that doesn't make them good. There are songs that don't follow the rules of music that are not necessarily bad. Just because song structure is correct, it does not mean that it is a good song. The majority of hymns, in my opinion are bad, terrible in fact. This is why there are no CD's by Charlotte Church sitting next to Led Zeppelin in my CD collection.
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"Anyway, it's all a load of crap."
yes, if you need evidence of existence, then it would be a load of crap, but if you can go out on a limb and have faith enough to believe that it is true regardless of evidence, then no, it is not a load of crap:)
Nah, it's a load of crap.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 18:25:49 [Permalink]
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Hymns have no discernible melody! They wander fruitlessly through the musical scale until they die of exhaustion. And nobody knows the words or the tune anyway half the time....!
Apologies for me being too tired to contribute anything of value to an interesting thread.  |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 18:32:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Jarrid:
We are all born into sin, as we all have a sinful human nature in us.
Nope. That is a Christian concept. I am not a Christian. I have never been a Christian. And, I have never sinned. Not in the way you think of sin, anyway... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 19:07:47 [Permalink]
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The universe is large, large enough that it boggles the puny imaginations of all but Stephen Hawking, and I ain't all that sure about him.
So, if there should be one god, why not two? And if two, why not ten or a hundred, or a whole population of supreme beings, each one furiously defending it's own picayune territory against the others? And could you imagine what the mating season might be like!
The point is that in a virtually limitless universe, there are limitless possibilities. One god or a gazillion gods, or no gods at all; just laws of physics. And I speculate that we haven't learned of the existance of all of the laws of physics, and perhaps never will.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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