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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2004 : 10:29:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Jarrid:
kil...just out of curiousity, if you were to define the word "sin", then how would you define it?
I might use the word sin in a sentence like "It would be a sin not to get the most out of my computer because it cost me so much to buy." Or, "this pie is sinfully delicious." I realize that the origins of the word are tied to a religious concept. But words evolve. If I see something astonishing and I yell out "Holy Smoke" that doesn't mean I think the smoke is really holy or that the smoke exists. Put another way, the word sin is just a word I might use to add color to a sentence. It may be that it is the religious root of the word that gives it its flair. But that in no way means I subscribe to the religions definition of the word to use it for emphases.
Beyoned that, I really don't care if you think you are a sinner. Your faith is your buisness. I have absolutly nothing invested in changing that... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 11:09:08 [Permalink]
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Jarrid wrote:quote:
again, no i have not, but have you experienced death to know that there isn't? i know that you need not prove what you believe...that seems to be the policy around here, but rather that you expect me to back up what i believe, but thats the way it is...you can't say there isn't, i can't say there is. plain and simple.
You seem to have assumed that I've stated or implied a claim here. I haven't. Yes, if you choose to make a claim about whether a person's existence continues beyond death, you'll need to support that claim with evidence. If you cannot do so, I (and others here) will feel free to reject your claim as an unsupported assertion.
quote:
here, you seem to mistake the fact that i judge myself in that as well. the only difference with me is that i've been forgiven, according to the bible, of the sins which i committed.
I don't care whether you hold yourself to the same standard you wish to impose on Kil or not. The point is, if you feel it is okay to hold people to moral standards which have no evidenciary support as limits which need to be set for society to function, then you should send me $1,000, since that's my version of the same sort of ad hoc, made-up standard.
So pay up.quote:
it is possible, though not probable, to avoid sinful behavior, but on a biblical bases, everyone has born into sin, therefore making everyone a sinner. i did not say that kil was an immoral person; that doesn't matter. part of it was me defining sin, and saying how difficult it would be for one to avoid sinful behavior, but where being a sinner comes in to play is the fact that, according to the bible, we are born into it. thats all:) and again to restate this: i pass this "judgement" on myself as well. i do not hold others to a standard that i don't expect myself to follow, nor do i condemn someone for their behavior.
All irrelevant to the point.
quote:
the first thing i posted here was about creation v. evolution. this is a reply to something I posted:
"I'm certain you'd agree Stephen Hawking is an intelligent individual. But if he ventured into an engine repair website and demonstrated a lack of the basics of that subject, it would be just as proper to point it out to him."
to me, it does matter whether or not they are musicians, or deal with music. listening to music is great, but it doesn't make you an expert on the history of musical notation lol...it carries no weight, and that was my point. just took the long way around i guess;)
Did someone aside from you bring up musical notation? It's rather disingenuous to portray others here as if they'd claimed that they were musical experts criticizing the way the notes have been written down, when it's clear to me that they've done little more than say, "I think most of that sort of music sucks." You were the one who questioned whether they are musicians, which is what carries no weight. There is no accounting for taste, no matter how much of a musical expert you are.
quote:
to me, Christians are Christians, regardless of their doctrine. the bible says "you will know them by their fruits.." speaking of the fruits of the spirit which are found in gal. 5:22, and that is what i view a christian as--a person who shows such qualities. it doesn't matter to me if one doctrine says "once in grace always in grace" while another says "entire sanctification." what matters is what is in the heart, not on paper.
Galatians 5:19-23 reads:quote:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
I would wonder what standard you use to judge these things.
quote:
according to what you say, who are you or who is anyone else on here to ask for evidence of christianity or that there is life after death? and again you make it sound like i'm singling him out when my statement included everyone discluding god himself. and back to the music, again i want to make sure that its something that means something...you all criticized kent hovind, and from what i read rightfully so...but a lot of it was criticism about his credentials. same here...where are the credentials? you can talk but does it make a difference if you don't have the "credentials"?
You are apparently missing the point about "credentials." Hovind uses his credentials, such as they are, in an attempt to make people believe that since he has such credentials, he must be correct. Or, were Stephen Hawking to roll into an auto shop and say, "I've got a PhD in physics, so therefore I am an expert in engine repair, he would rightly be laughed out of the place.
The simple fact of the matter is, though, that if your arguments are sound, it doesn't matter if you flunked out of junior high. And if your arguments are poor, having a PhD isn't going to magically make them correct.
People who understand this only start discussing other people's qualifications when they're a part of an argument. Hovind has made a big deal of his alleged qualifications when trying to prove himself correct, so discussions of them, and whether or not they're genuine, are "fair game." Just like you made a big deal of your musical qualifications.
Nobody else here, by that point in time, had said anything like, "I'm a musician, therefore I know hymns are crap." You, on the other hand, basically said, "I'm a highly skilled musician, therefore when I say hymns are cool, I'm right." And, I should add, that nobody asked you about your qualifications to judge music. You brought it up voluntarily, with neither prompting nor arm-twisting.
And, similarly, what qualifications does it take to ask you to support the claims you are making? None at all. Especially since such questions essentially mean, "please educate me as to the reasons you are making that claim." Demanding that people already know the answer be |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 18:32:09 [Permalink]
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hey everyone:) sorry i have not posted much today, seeing that a lot of you have, but i woke up this morning with a very annoying cold...so i just pretty much slept all day. i will reply sometime within the next couple days to all that you have said, and i just wanted to say that you all made very excellent points:) i didn't feel that anyone made any statements without backing up what they said...so keep up the good work i guess;)
jarrid |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 20:57:01 [Permalink]
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valiant
you seem toi think you knoiw so much, then why are you not saving your self and family and your brother you seem to argue religion, We can't do anything without god he is the reason we are here.. Your brother seems to care about you very much and yet you seem to have so much resentment towards him and what he stands for, And as far as me you cannot speak for me or even possibly know what I have been through. not all NA 's follow the true system,, mine was perverted and evil, I ought to know cause I deal with the memories everyday...My mom didn't live like her father she was rebellous and did anything to hurt the way they tried to teach her, why she tormented me and abused me and committed suicide in front of me and blamed me for her problems, said I was a mistake and cut her throat and made me think all these years it was my fault... you need to not be a know it all, cause you will never see nothing outside your own selfishness. thinking you have all the answers,God help you and I am praying for you that god will open your eyes and have some love for the less unfortunate.... Free to be me |
freeotbe |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 21:19:25 [Permalink]
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| oh and another thing i wanted to mention...if you think i'm being too pushy or close minded, just let me know and i'll try to back off a little:) not my intention to make anyone mad or anything like that, so just tell me to shut my big mouth;) |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 21:22:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
valiant
you seem toi think you knoiw so much, then why are you not saving your self and family and your brother you seem to argue religion, We can't do anything without god he is the reason we are here.. Your brother seems to care about you very much and yet you seem to have so much resentment towards him and what he stands for, And as far as me you cannot speak for me or even possibly know what I have been through. not all NA 's follow the true system,, mine was perverted and evil, I ought to know cause I deal with the memories everyday...My mom didn't live like her father she was rebellous and did anything to hurt the way they tried to teach her, why she tormented me and abused me and committed suicide in front of me and blamed me for her problems, said I was a mistake and cut her throat and made me think all these years it was my fault... you need to not be a know it all, cause you will never see nothing outside your own selfishness. thinking you have all the answers,God help you and I am praying for you that god will open your eyes and have some love for the less unfortunate.... Free to be me
I wish you would be free to punctuate. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 02:43:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
oh and another thing i wanted to mention...if you think i'm being too pushy or close minded, just let me know and i'll try to back off a little:) not my intention to make anyone mad or anything like that, so just tell me to shut my big mouth;)
Jarrid, not at all. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe most will agree that your comments and opinions are very welcome. This is the purpose of such a board. We're all here to share our thoughts, and just maybe..learn something in the end.
I only wish that I had more time to present my posts in a better manner. Unfortunately, I worked eighty-six hours last week, and will do about seventy this week, and I'm just plain out tired. The only problem is, I have a bit of a problem sleeping at times, so I come here. Weird, hunh? |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 07:39:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
valiant
you seem toi think you knoiw so much, then why are you not saving your self and family and your brother you seem to argue religion, We can't do anything without god he is the reason we are here.
Herein lies your egotism. You think I and my family need saving. You also think that I am somehow "not with God". You also think that I have not studied the subject I was debating with my brother. How much have you read on SRA? How much have you read on other religions than your own? Besides your own horrible experience, what leads you to believe that an entity by the name of Satan has anything to do with what happened to you?
quote:
. Your brother seems to care about you very much and yet you seem to have so much resentment towards him and what he stands for,
You confuse serious disagreement with the extremist religion my brother joined with resentment towards my brother.
quote:
And as far as me you cannot speak for me or even possibly know what I have been through. not all NA 's follow the true system,, mine was perverted and evil, I ought to know cause I deal with the memories everyday.
And why didn't you say that instead of blaming all of Shamanism? You didn't. That indicated that you felt Shamanism was the work of Satan.
quote:
..My mom didn't live like her father she was rebellous and did anything to hurt the way they tried to teach her, why she tormented me and abused me and committed suicide in front of me and blamed me for her problems, said I was a mistake and cut her throat and made me think all these years it was my fault.
Sounds like the actions of a seriously mentally disturbed individual, not the work of Satan. Nor do you claim that she involked Satan during this. So, again, you have not made a case that you were the victim of SRA. Again, I urge you to seek professional psychiatric help instead of the charlitanism of my brother's organization.
quote:
.. you need to not be a know it all, cause you will never see nothing outside your own selfishness. thinking you have all the answers,God help you and I am praying for you that god will open your eyes and have some love for the less unfortunate.... Free to be me
I have love for those less fortunate. Each time, I have urged you to get professional help dealing with the horreneous events that happened to you. My brother's "ministry" is neither professional, healthy, nor has any psychiatric training.
Being less fortunate, however, does not release you from the rules of logic. You claim you know what is truth and what is lies, yet you cannot cite any evidence to support assertations you make instead relying on the horribleness of the events you lived through as proof. Therefore, your arguement suffers from an appeal to pity logical fallacy and subverted support. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 12:40:45 [Permalink]
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| Good gravy tim! What do you do for a living? That is a LOT of hours...sheesh I hope you have time to do something other than work...poor guy;) lol |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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