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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 12/24/2001 : 22:02:53 [Permalink]
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NBC decides to air a four hour special on the errancy of the historical jesus figure. Now, image their four hour special kills the company. Or PBS runs the four hour special and people quit donating money to keep them running. Well, I guess the historical reality of jesus comes down to money. Maybe, in a few years. Unless the xian gawd is victorious over the islamic allah. Then we'll never hear the end of it.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2001 : 22:37:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
NBC decides to air a four hour special on the errancy of the historical jesus figure. Now, image their four hour special kills the company. Or PBS runs the four hour special and people quit donating money to keep them running. Well, I guess the historical reality of jesus comes down to money. Maybe, in a few years. Unless the xian gawd is victorious over the islamic allah. Then we'll never hear the end of it.
I completely agree. The biggest obstacle to more critical programming is that the folks with the money are simply a subset of the population - they are the same god-fearing conspiracy nuts as our next-door neighbor Flanders. And the truth is rarely as interesting as the possiblities.
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2001 : 13:13:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I find it interesting that they all have presented various theories about the stories in the Bible and Jesus yet not one mentioned Mithra or that there are some that doubt Jesus existed.
There actually was one on, on Christmas eve, that was about the historic Jesus. I can't remember if it was on A&E or THC. But it starts by mentioning that there is no evidence that dates from Jesus' time. This had me on the edge of my seat but they didn't follow through. Their point being that even if we have nothing from the period we still know lots about JC any way.
They went on to show the remains of a fishing boat from 30CE and the archaeoligical site of "Peter's house." They said that the same family lived in houses for hundreds of years and that Christians in the fourth Century would be directed to this house because Peter's decendents still lived there--maybe. They didn't point out that there weren't Jews living there anymore at that time. Nor did they mention that it was an Angel that showed the 80 year old Saint Helena this spot.
Nor did they mention that Archaeologists don't agree on the location of Nazareth-or if it ever existed at all.
But still, when you consider how dangerous Christians are, it was very brave of them to slow even the few seconds of doubt that they did.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2001 : 14:04:07 [Permalink]
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Yes I watched that last night. In Search of Christmas did mention Mithras but not in very much detail.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 09:27:57 [Permalink]
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How many apostles did Mithra have?
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 09:59:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
How many apostles did Mithra have?
Hmmm, let's see... Slater: that makes one...
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 10:47:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
How many apostles did Mithra have?
12!
From http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/ where this and other coincidences are discuseed:
quote:
With twelve disciples he traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men.
He was buried in a tomb from which he rose again from the dead -- an event celebrated yearly with much rejoicing.
Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born one more, putting an end to darkness. Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God."
His followers kept the Sabbath holy, eating sacramental meals in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull.
Baptism in the blood of the bull (taurobolum) -- early
Baptism "washed in the blood of the Lamb" -- late
Baptism by water [recorded by the Christian author Tertullian]
Mithraic rituals brought about the transformation and Salvation of His adherents -- an ascent of the soul of the adherent into the realm of the divine. From the wall of a Mithraic temple in Rome: "And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood."
The great Mithraic festivals celebrated his birth (at the winter solstice) and his death and resurrection (at the spring solstice)
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 11:48:53 [Permalink]
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Oh my gosh! It's Alogos! you actually came back.
That's a first among "believers" welcome back.
12 is the classic number of Apostles that all the God/men had. Mithra had 12, but he got that number from even earlier saviours. It's a magic number. You find magic numbers a lot in the bible-3 & 40 were popular ones. 12 originally comes from the number of signs in the zodiac.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 15:50:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
How many apostles did Mithra have?
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 19:19:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
How many apostles did Mithra have?
Hit the wrog button?
Mithra, aka, "the Good Shepherd" had 12
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 19:34:21 [Permalink]
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How many apostles did Jesus have?
Let's check, shall we,
Matthew says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Lesser, LEBBEUS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
Mark says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Less, THADDEUS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
Luke says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Less, JUDAS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
John does not name the Twelve Apostles at all
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2002 : 16:23:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
How many apostles did Jesus have?
Let's check, shall we,
Matthew says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Lesser, LEBBEUS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
Mark says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Less, THADDEUS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
Luke says
Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James Less, JUDAS, Simon, Judas Iscariot
John does not name the Twelve Apostles at all
But it should be obvious that Lebbeus, Thaddeus, and Judas were all the same person! Duh!
(Yes, I'm being sarcastic.  )
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2002 : 18:29:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
But it should be obvious that Lebbeus, Thaddeus, and Judas were all the same person! Duh!
Hey, if it takes 3 "persons" to make 1 God then maybe it takes 14 guys to make 12 Apostles.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2002 : 11:34:37 [Permalink]
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"The second cult is that of Mithras.Although his worship reached the Roman world as early as the first century BC,brought by the Cilcian pirates suppressed by Pompey,it was not until [bTHE SECOND CENTURY AD THAT MITHARISM REALLY BEGAN TO TAKE A FIRM HOLD IN THE WEST."u](THE ROMAN SOLDIER,By G.R.WATSON. CORNELL UNIVERSITY PRESS,Ithaca,New York.p.131 emphasis mine). Hello everyone and thanks for the warm welcome back.Before I lunge into our topic I would like to know if anyone else is experiencing the same problems as myself i.e. I can't logoff sometimes,more importantly I can't reply to topics on my computer at work as I used to(and with two kids and a wife in school I very rarely get to use the one at home)any suggestions,besides buy another computer? Thanks in advance.Now the above quote coming from an unbiased milatry historian pretty much puts to rest Slater's fantasy with Jesus being a third century invention to placate the Romans solders by Eusiebius and Constatine, at least with meit does,how bout uuu?
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2002 : 12:29:16 [Permalink]
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Nobody said that the similarities between the Bible and the cult of Mithras are because its writers wanted to appeal to the followers of Mithra.
There are two points at wich Christianity is said to have been influenced by Mithraism.
The first was while the bibel was written down. Mithraism was already known in Rome and Greece at this point even if it did not yet enjoy the popularity it later gained.
The second instance was later when Mithraism was hugely popular among Roman soilders. From this point we gained the stuff not written down in the Bible.
Christmas is an example of the second influence that no Scholar today would refute.
The First part is more contested. But since Mithraism is older and has been known in rome at the time the New testament was written, it appears to be good guess that it's writers were influenced by the Mithras cult.
Of course you could always explain those and other similarities to Mithras and other pagan deieties the way the christian apologis Justin has done. He accuses the devil of having started Mithraism and other cults to discredit Jesus later apperance.
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