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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2001 : 20:11:43 [Permalink]
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[quote]
Congress doesn't have the knowledge or understanding to make medical choices.
[quote]
Snake
since when has a politician of any stripe ever let understanding, logic, or reason get in the way of making political decisions. congress and the prez don't make medical or scientific decisions, they make political decisions that can impact medicine or science.
what do you expect from a group populated mostly by lawyers. bush would have gone to law school but his scores were too low.
lawyers aren't actually stupid, but they only point out facts that support their position. they are trained that way.
comrade billyboy |
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TFarnon
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2001 : 20:23:10 [Permalink]
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I work in scientific (life sciences) research, so I find it difficult to find anything "evil" in stem cell research. That, and had the house of representatives been successful in making cloning a human embryo illegal, or should they succeed in doing so, I intend to get the appropriate hormone injections, get my eggs harvested (I'd do it myself, but can't quite figure out how to do the epidural without assistance...), and make off with said eggs. I'll use my own cell nuclei, from the most pluripotent cells I can reach with a minimum of pain--probably some sort of epithelium or white blood cell, and do my level best to clone my own genetic material into my own eggs with my own labor. Then I'll call the cops and dare 'em to arrest me for doing whatever I damn well please with my own body. Yup. Just call me a psychotic test case in the making...
Sorry this is so incoherent, but I'm incoherent this week. T.
Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2001 : 20:58:20 [Permalink]
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tfarnon
wow! that is dedication.
but if money can be generated from embryonic stem cell work, the president will find a way to "liberalize" restricitons on the research. and if sufficient money is involved, the government may even bless cloning.
comrade billyboy |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2001 : 21:24:17 [Permalink]
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I really tried to watch the President's speech this evening. I can read about the guy okay, but there's something about watching him that bugs me. I keep expecting him to start picking his nose or something.
So I watched the after-the-speech-talking-heads-wrap-up.
I was surprised. I really expected it to get shot down. I was disappointed, but not really shocked to see the resistance to cloning. Seems to most people, new=scary=verboten.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 01:28:03 [Permalink]
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Not to belittle the moral ramifications, they are certainly real and perplexing, but like it or not, the worst case will probably happen. This technology doesn't take a particle accelerator to do. And the good ol' US of A doesn't have a lock on it either. Dolly was a product of jolly ol'.
To have a reservoir of perfectly compatible body parts, young ones, for those with the wealth, could be a real temptation for extending the "good life." There are parts of the world, where the thought of perfect soldiers, not bright enough to question orders, mind you, willing to lay their life down for, say, allah, tha boss, or who ever, could be a temptation as well.
Trying to "outlaw" this branch of research, will only delegate it to the "fringe," as well as to the super wealthy, where public observation will be blissfully ignorant of it's progress, till it's too late. Better to allow it in full public view, me tinks, anyway.
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities."
-Voltaire |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 02:04:02 [Permalink]
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Robotics is also an interesting idea.
I wouldn't mind having an army of 10,000,000 robots to take over the world (good luck stopping me).
All replacable almost instantly, whenever a factory is taken over it could be reconfigured to build more.
They would work together faster then any human squad, would be harder to damage and carry more weapons (e.g. standard infantry weapon would be .50 BMG).
New tactics learnt in the field could be sent to all others instantly.
If your like me and want to take over the world (only sometimes) then robotics is far more promising then cloning (which takes too damn long).
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 05:07:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
I wouldn't mind having an army of 10,000,000 robots to take over the world (good luck stopping me).
 A couple of EMP blasts, and your robots (and you) would be finished...
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Ma gavte la nata!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/10/2001 05:08:30 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 09:19:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I wouldn't mind having an army of 10,000,000 robots to take over the world (good luck stopping me).
A couple of EMP blasts, and your robots (and you) would be finished...
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Ma gavte la nata!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/10/2001 05:08:30
Na, used vacuum tubes instead of solid state electronics. (tee hee)
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 09:30:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Na, used vacuum tubes instead of solid state electronics. (tee hee)
Curses! Foiled again!
[by the way, those are gonna be some big-assed robots (figuratively, not literally  ), and the heat...]
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Ma gavte la nata!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/10/2001 09:31:30 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 09:42:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Seems to most people, new=scary=verboten.
Remember, not too long ago stem cell research was the scary new thing. As demographics and political reality changes, so will politicians views. As soon as there is a clear advantage to cloning that rich people can use cloning will be re-evaluated and eventually embraced. Count on it!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 10:43:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Na, used vacuum tubes instead of solid state electronics. (tee hee)
Curses! Foiled again!
[by the way, those are gonna be some big-assed robots (figuratively, not literally ), and the heat...]
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Ma gavte la nata!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/10/2001 09:31:30
Think Battletech Atlas (100 ton Mech) big. The heat is an added bonus. Causes more damage to biological units attempting to sabotage/destroy em.
From Battletech RPG advertizements:
It stands 10 stories tall, has more firepower than 40 tanks, and you can beat him to snail snot before he can fire.
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 06:21:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
lawyers aren't actually stupid, but they only point out facts that support their position. they are trained that way.
Most of us only point out facts that support our position. It's human nature. Lawyers get paid to do it. You're right, there's nothin' stupid about that. 
Wendy Jones |
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TFarnon
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 09:51:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
I really tried to watch the President's speech this evening. I can read about the guy okay, but there's something about watching him that bugs me. I keep expecting him to start picking his nose or something.
So I watched the after-the-speech-talking-heads-wrap-up.
I was surprised. I really expected it to get shot down. I was disappointed, but not really shocked to see the resistance to cloning. Seems to most people, new=scary=verboten.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done
I only heard one fragment from Shrub's speech this morning. I guess he thinks that embryonic stem cells keep their totipotent characteristics (phenotype) forever. Okay. saying "phenotype" probably didn't clarify anything. Basically, embryonic stem cells are considered totipotent because they can develop into ANY kind of body cell.
Back to why I was so peeved at Shrub: Stupid git! Eventually ALL cultured cells and cultured cell lines start to differentiate, usually due to stress (exposure to oxygen, inadequate culture media and/or supplements, bacterial or viral contamination, overcrowding in the culture vessel, etc.). In research, unless you want to examine that particular kind of differentiation, you throw the culture out and unfreeze/obtain a new one.
In short, Shrub has yet to bring himself out of the moron category by failing to realize that embryonic stem cells MUST be "made" fresh from time to time. The cells from a given embryo can't be used indefinitely. Stupid, stupid, STUPID man! If a dumb tech like ME knows that, no excuse for his handlers not explaining it to him.
Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 11:54:35 [Permalink]
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i have heard various pundits claim that only 10-12 lines exist, rather than the 60 mentioned by bush. most of these are owned by private companies. these owners might have ideas quite different from shrub's.
if the profit potential is sufficiently great, bush will engage in some well spun backsliding in order to let the work go foreward. W knows the tune he has to dance to.
comrade billyboy |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 13:47:35 [Permalink]
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Vaccum tubes aren't a good idea.
I would rather have solid state, but something which is sheilded from EMP (possible but expensive, although when I take over countries I wont have to worry about that).
Also I wont tell you when I'm going to attack, I'll just get my 10,000,000 robots ready along with the robotic jet fighters and transports (about the size of a C-5 and another one the size of a C-17 but all stealths). Then send them all to where I need them and take the places over quickly.
Robotic helicopters would also be used (some about the size of model ones with a machine gun, others the size of a CH-53 and carrying robotic soliders.
I don't want my robots to give off too much heat as they may not be very fast if they have to lug a nuclear reactor around with them (fuel cell is what I'm looking at to power them).
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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