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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2004 : 11:49:16 [Permalink]
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Doesn't really matter if every reporter is a Democrat. In fact, the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' don't mean much. Tell me that Dan Rather is a socialist. I don't think so. These people may be social liberals, but they don't lean much to the left otherwise.
Besides, the problem is who OWNS the media, not who the talking heads are. They are the ones that decide what gets on the air.
quote:
Originally posted by TaterBlade
I don't know what your "related" degree is in Renae, or what you have read about the media, but the liberal media bias is real. It is well known that virtually all the mainstream newspapers and the major TV Networks & their news divisions have been run by democrats and left-wingers for years. The radio, on the other hand has been controlled more recently by the right-wing.
Cable news, while initially left-wing (CNN - The Clinton News Network) has also tended to be more conservative, although the opinions about Fox News being a mouthpiece for the current administration are somewhat dubios - It depends on which show.
As for Al O'Franken, I think he is funny, and a bit of a jerk. I have heard some very valid points, so far, and some real vitriol. I will continue to listen, for a while. Personally I'm glad he is on in the same time slot as Rush. (I thought he was funny too, but his vitriol grew old for me a long time ago).
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 12:40:52 [Permalink]
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TaterBlade wrote:quote:
It is well known that virtually all the mainstream newspapers and the major TV Networks & their news divisions have been run by democrats and left-wingers for years.
Welcome to the Skeptic Friends Network!
It was once well-known that the Earth was the center of the universe, too. In other words, what is "well-known" isn't always correct. Is there evidence that this well-known thing is, indeed, the truth?
Robb wrote:quote:
http://www.rightgrrl.com/99grrls/February/Lisa_P/hillary.shtml
That article makes it pretty clear that there was a liberal bias amongst Democrats in Congress (hardly surprising), but not necessarily the media. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 07:42:27 [Permalink]
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Tater, I could tell you what my degree is and from where, but when people do that on Internet forums, I'm generally annoyed. It looks like bragging or insecurity and I shouldn't have mentioned it at all.
I understand the basic tenets of journalism. I chose not to work in that area, but I know people who have. And, IMO, the "liberal bias" of the media is a myth perpetuated by the right wing in order to further their own agenda. The "liberal bias" is by no means "well-known". It's not agreed to or accepted by lots of people, me included.
Just so you know: reporters don't choose what stories are aired to the public, so it doesn't much matter if reporters are Democrats or Republicans. The big decisions are made by editors, producers, and news directors--many of whom are now under incredible pressure to produce high profit margins. It's a phenomenon they used to call "the MBA in the newsroom."
Broadcast TV has one of the highest profit margins in all corporate America. It's incredibly cheap to do local news: simply cover car accidents, fires, and pie eating contests--oh, and read the AP news wire stories with little editing.
It's also insulting and unfair to imply that even if a reporter is a Democrat, she can't do her job well. Reporters are trained professionals (at least, the ones who aren't Barbie dolls with microphones). They're trained to present both sides of the story; they're trained to evaluate the relevance and credibility and reliability of their sources. Some reporters are better than others. Some dentists are better than other dentists, too, but we don't malign an entire profession for a few bad dentists, right?
I think mainstream media has a "bad news" bias, and a sensationalism bias. But a liberal one? Nope. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 08:06:23 [Permalink]
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'And even William Kristol, without a doubt the most influential Republican/neoconservative publicist in America today, has come clean on this issue. "I admit it," he told a reporter. "The liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures." '
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20030224&s=alterman2 |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2004 : 03:10:01 [Permalink]
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I'm Baaaack...Work sucks and now the corporate assholes want to lay-off half the work force, so I can't sleep again, and come to the place where I relieve my frustrations best--Onto all my friends at SFN!
Sorry, guys.
What has that to do with this thread?
Nada!
Anyways, I don't know how anyone can think that the mainstream media has an overall left bias--Unless, they buy into the Republican Party Talking Points Road Show.
Let's face it, they've been successful in pushing the center further and further right with this talk machine. The so called 'liberal media' has bent over backwards to show both sides of a story. Talk radio, cable networks and small city print media have gone out of their way to do the bidding of their corporate masters.
I found out about Air America when I tuned into CNN the other day as I was getting ready for bed in the wee hours of the morning. CNN, that paragon of liberal media, was making fun of the idea of liberal radio, and The 'O'Frankin Factor'. The older commentator guy, (can't recall his name) mentioned that we have enough liberal radio already. I don't know what planet that guy lives on, but we have NO-ZERO-ZILCH commercial liberal radio down here. Conservative radio...yes.(We do have NPR, but they're funded by corporate underwriters and corporate bought and paid for Congressman).
Well, that was all the vitriol I have left. Now, I'm going to begin being rational.
I honestly do believe that mainstream media may lean slightly left on social issues, but when fiscal issues are considered, there's no question. The mainstream US media is the voice of American corporations.
To avoid typing for three hours, I'll use my post at America's Debate on media issues. Here's the link;
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4384
I'm the second post down on page five, aka Hpiltdown. (I'm also on page six, but I was just trying to start an argument there!)
I was trying to come off as real rational on that site, but I doubt I acheived my goal. Plus, several of the other folks have some good insights. All in all, America's Debate is a very good Bulletin Board, but a little too big for my tastes. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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TaterBlade
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2004 : 15:48:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
TaterBlade wrote:quote:
It is well known that virtually all the mainstream newspapers and the major TV Networks & their news divisions have been run by democrats and left-wingers for years.
Dave W. wrote:[quote]
It was once well-known that the Earth was the center of the universe, too. In other words, what is "well-known" isn't always correct. Is there evidence that this well-known thing is, indeed, the truth?
"Everybody knows that there's a liberal, that there's a heavy liberal persuasion among correspondents." Walter Cronkite at the Radio and TV Correspondents Association dinner, March 21, 1996.
"I, among others, have a liberal bias. I mean I'm consistently liberal in my opinions............I think Dan (Rather) is transparently liberal. Now he may not like to hear me say that. I always agree with him, too. But I think he should be more careful." Andy Rooney, on Larry King Live, June 5, 2002
Quotes Courtesy of Dontreadonme from
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4384
Hey look, the topic was Air America. Sure, I expected to get a tough response in this room because I beleive that there is a preponderance of evidence supporting the conclusion that the mainstream network news divisions and the biggest papers in the biggest cities have, for many years, reported straight news with a liberal bias. I also said that there are other media sources counteracting that. Air America is the punch back in the radio segment. I think it is a legitimate effort, and I believe that in that arena "all's fair".
I also made a personal observation regarding Al O'Franken. What do you all think of his performance, particularly?
(and it IS a performance  )
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"Black holes are where God divided by zero"
Steven Wright |
| Edited by - TaterBlade on 04/05/2004 22:11:59 |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 04:31:23 [Permalink]
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TaterBlade, the quotes you left prove only that Cronkite felt that many correspondents were politically liberal nearly ten years ago. Plus, Dan Rather calls himself a liberal. Are these testimonials evidence for a liberal bias in the US media? remember that this is a skeptic's board. We take testimonials with a grain of salt, unless backed up with real evidence.
Look, man, I don't know how old you are or what your life's experiences are, but some of us remeber a real liberal media from the '60's and '70's, at least in comparison to the general public. The media began to shift in the opposite direction during the Reagan admin. This was the beginning of the deregulation era.
Today, the conservative spin doctors have been successful at using their exclusive access to the air waves to move the center to the right. And, I do mean 'exclusive'. Donahue has been the only national liberal news talk show host in the past few years. Conservatives like to remind us that he was fired because of low ratings. And, those ratings were low in comparison to his FOX competition. What those conservatives don't mention is that Donahue was the highest rated talk show host on MSNBC. Usually, in such a case the network will test a show with this type of ratings history in another time slot before shit-canning it. That makes me wonder if there wasn't more issues than ratings at stake for MSNBC.
One of those issues may very well be advertising. Advertisers tend to be businesses and corporate interests. When these entities are given a choice as to where to invest their advertising dollars, wouldn't it be logical to put those dollars into a medium that isn't hostile toward them?
This is the problem that Air America will face. Already, their advertising seems to be heavily dominated by public service messages and such advertisers as Canada's department for tourism.
Anyway, from my experience, I have found that those folks that call themselves conservatives will feel that the US media leans left. Liberals will tend to think the media has a rightward tilt. My argument is that the media has a strong corporate bias.
Corporations have a responsibility to their share holders. To keep a gov't friendly to corporate interests is a logical step to maximize profits to the shareholders. Corporate interest has little to do with reporting unbiased news.
Even if journalists tend to lean left, common sense tells us that companies will promote editors, publishers and producers that are more corporate friendly. These are the folks that choose the stories and have the final say as to what gets out. Plus, I don't believe that reporters are much different than the rest of us that will think twice before upsetting the guy that signs our pay checks. Additionally, if a journalist reports news in a liberally biased fashion, I would expect that the more conservative editors will assign them to politically neutral stories, or just fire them. Finally, assuming that reporters cannot report a story in an unbiased fashion hints at a whole lot of ethical problems with any person trying to do their job.
TaterBlade, try reading some of the mainstream media outlets from other English speaking countries. Read various news reports from Canada, Australia and from Brittain then tell me if you think our media is still liberal. If you know of a better indicator of where the center lies, please tell me.
Plus, read the link I left in my last post. I left lots of evidence for a corporately biased media. If you would like more, specific evidence, I will try to help.
As for Al Franken, I find him to be amusing at times, interesting at times and irritating at other times. I could say the same for Rush, except that I find Rush to come off as arrogant sometimes when he is making bad attempts at humor.
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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TaterBlade
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 09:21:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
TaterBlade, the quotes you left prove only that Cronkite felt that many correspondents were politically liberal nearly ten years ago. Plus, Dan Rather calls himself a liberal. Are these testimonials evidence for a liberal bias in the US media? remember that this is a skeptic's board. We take testimonials with a grain of salt, unless backed up with real evidence.
Look, man, I don't know how old you are or what your life's experiences are, but some of us remeber a real liberal media from the '60's and '70's, at least in comparison to the general public. The media began to shift in the opposite direction during the Reagan admin.
I think my original statement was that the TV network news divisions and the major newspapers in this country have been controlled by the left FOR MANY YEARS. (I was around in the sixties although, as they say "if you remember them, you weren't there" <G>) I challenge you to refute that - in the news rooms and editorial boards (not the corporate offices) - it is still true today. I used the quote from Walter because he, like I, said that it is well known. If you or any else can't except that premise. fine.
I also said, as you have, that alternate news sources have been challenging the liberal bias that was, intended or not, a result of the control that eminated from that glass house; and which at one time, was virtually the only source of news that existed. I am glad that you "remember a real liberal media". Some here still swear it never existed. It may have "begun to shift" in the Reagan administration, but I disagree that the shift was anywhere near complete.
I submit that there is a key difference between what we are getting from the supposed "straight reporting" we see on network news & the Front Page (as opposed to the Editorial Page), and the more conservative propaganda we get from the plethora of cable news "analyisis" shows, and even more directly, from what we hear in talk radio. Remember I said I thought that Air America is a valid reaction in that segment.
Your comments about Al & Rush are also pretty consistent with what I posted. |
"Black holes are where God divided by zero"
Steven Wright |
| Edited by - TaterBlade on 04/07/2004 10:10:39 |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2004 : 18:58:57 [Permalink]
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I've heard this "liberal media" crap for years now, and I still don't buy it. While I have to give props to Tater for at least attempting to provide some evidence with a quote, far too often it's simply taken for granted as gospel by those who wish to believe it. Personally, I don't.
It appears to me, as others have pointed out, that the media - the major broadcast networks at least - go out of their way to offer an objective presentation, even to the point of not really saying anything at all. In fact, I fear they've become so intimidated by the charge of "liberal bias" that the once vaunted "fourth estate" has become little more than a dilapidated trailer park.
As for Air America, I'm happy to finally see some counterbalance to the chorus of conservative voices on the radio. For the most part, it's a refreshing breath of fresh air. Still, I'd like to hear a broader representation of liberal viewpoints presented. Right now, it sounds more like "Air Democratic Party." Just ask Ralph Nader. Heck, if I want to hear program after program uniformly dismiss and denigrate someone, I can get that from conservative radio. 
As for Al, I've only heard bits and pieces of his show, mostly weekend repeats, as he's normally on while I'm at work. But, as articulate and knowledgeable as he is, he just doesn't seem to have a style that translates well to radio. Janeane and Sam's show ("The Majority Report"), on the other hand, seems destined to be a hit. But all of them appear to have a number of annoying technical "bugs" to work out.
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Paladin |
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