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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 06/16/2004 : 11:16:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
If your intention is to do nothing more than you have been doing, which is rude and unproductive, I will feel little guilt in showing you the exit. Any further whining about censorship, hypocritically sneering about "debates" or insulting the other participants here will only get you booted that much faster.
Your post angers me again. I have only lashed out alittle at people that attacked me. Other than that I have directed no venome directly at anybody here. Just because you side with them and make me the enemy doesn't mean I insulting your pose. Boot me, I don't care, you seem to love pushing buttons, booting people and locking threads. You prove to me you are no different than your pose of Lenny Flank.
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 11:52:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
If your intention is to do nothing more than you have been doing, which is rude and unproductive, I will feel little guilt in showing you the exit. Any further whining about censorship, hypocritically sneering about "debates" or insulting the other participants here will only get you booted that much faster.
Your post angers me again. I have only lashed out alittle at people that attacked me. Other than that I have directed no venome directly at anybody here. Just because you side with them and make me the enemy doesn't mean I insulting your pose. Boot me, I don't care, you seem to love pushing buttons, booting people and locking threads. You prove to me you are no different than your pose of Lenny Flank.
Ah, yes. "Censorship" and "Oppression" the clarion cry of people who don't read TOS's.
We still are awaiting you to defend your assertations with sources.
Dave has not attacked you. He has summed up your debating style and pointed out that it is invalid. He has compiled for you a list of assertations which you have been asked to defend with sources. You have not.
For the record, there is no posse here. Dave locks unproductive threads (which he does with great infrequency) and people getting booted is for violation of the TOS (which happens with even less frequency).
If you cannot back up your assertations with sources, I would suggest that Rapture Ready might be a site that has more kindred spirits to your own position.
(Edited because I can't spell) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 06/16/2004 11:54:02 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 11:55:33 [Permalink]
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Verlch, you say you want to enter a discussion. In the beginning of this thread, as in the beginning of the first big thread you started, the thread started out pretty nicely, with you making quite some statements. However, you very rarely backed these up with sources, even if we asked you to. Also, you refused to enter into debates. In stead of answering posts from others, you came up with new assertions, again without wanting to back them up or really trying to discuss them.
This thread has been especially made for discussion of the assertions you made. All of them are listed in the opening post. Where have you tried to discuss these assertions? Where in this thread have you even named one of the assertions and tried to discuss them, despite repeated requests to do so?
In stead, you have come up with more assertions and new 'opinions' about how you see women. Can you imagine that people get more then a little bit frustrated over this? In could it not be that their reaction is in part caused by your behaviour on this board?
In my honoust opinion, you have nowhere tried to enter in a discussion. Instead, you did nothing but spew out more 'opinions', without trying to defend them if people disagreed. That's just my opinion, but it's something you might want to think about.
edited for readability |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 06/16/2004 11:57:47 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 12:51:24 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
Your post angers me again. I have only lashed out alittle at people that attacked me. Other than that I have directed no venome directly at anybody here. Just because you side with them and make me the enemy doesn't mean I insulting your pose. Boot me, I don't care, you seem to love pushing buttons, booting people and locking threads. You prove to me you are no different than your pose of Lenny Flank.
Well, you have proven to me that my impression of you is accurate.
I locked the other thread because it was long and unproductive. Nobody new would even think of reading it all in order to join the discussion while making sure they aren't repeating what had already been hashed over. A "restart" was a good idea. And none of your words have been deleted or otherwise lost. You are free to bring up items from the original thread again, if you choose.
I have never booted anyone. If you would like to be first, by all means, continue as you have been. Let me restate the problem:
This is a forum for discussion. While you have implied that it is your intent to debate the points you raise, you have failed to do so. This wastes your time, and ours.
The very fact that I started this thread should demonstrate to you that I and others are interested in discussing the points you raised in the previous thread. If you are not interested in doing so, then responding to you serves no purpose, and your further posts here are nothing but a distraction. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 13:51:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
It is very simple, verlch. All you have done, aside from a multitude snide remarks, is put forth opinions. You have put forth opinions and regarded them as holy writ without a single shred of support. Do you expect us to accept a mere opinion? If so, you need more than Ritilan; you need a cluebat.
Where is your proof, other than the fact you have 10% of the population believing in Evolution! How does some speaker writting an essay on why the chicken came before the egg, make evolution some kindof fact. Therefore making me a dishonest liar to 10% of the population like you.
<yawn>, another one.
Please provide the source of that percentage..... Ah, fuck it.
You have no source, do you? You have no support for any of your assertions. You have nothing but wind; nothing but a mildly irritating noise that is gone and forgotten as soon as you close your ignorant mouth. And now you resort to an argument from popularity; an unsupported argument from popularity -- that is genuinely humorous.
An argument from popularity is no argument at all, as anyone but an cretin knows. I reccommend that you begin your studies soon. You are beginning to bore me.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 20:30:05 [Permalink]
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Actually, I think I may have found his source, but he is misleading it completely. According to Gallup Polls, 12% of people believe that evolution happens without gods presence, however he (somehow) failed to mention that 37% of people believe that evolution was help by god. So, if we take this the mathimatical way, 12+37=49, almost half. But wait, it gets worse for Verlch. According to the poles, 6% of the people had no opinion, so only 45% of people believe that evolution doesn't happen. Guess what, 45 < 49. So even if he wants to argue from Appeal to Popularity, he still loses.
http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/creation/evol-poll.htm |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 00:20:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
You have no source, do you? You have no support for any of your assertions. You have nothing but wind; nothing but a mildly irritating noise that is gone and forgotten as soon as you close your ignorant mouth. And now you resort to an argument from popularity; an unsupported argument from popularity -- that is genuinely humorous.
See Filthy here is a fine example of a wonderful friend of mine named 'punch me in the balls.' I have to sit and wade through grade school attacks before I can get to the good stuff. I don't think it's fair for 'Mr. Havard' here to attack me and then I have to keep my mouth shut!
I've had to hear this endlessly, but I mouthed off back and I get censured. As long as I don't 'offend' the 'offended', why not let me 'attack' in a round about way and 'keep' my 'dignity' intact while letting the 'attacker' know a man with wits and oozing with 'toughness' will not be 'sucker punched' with a smile on 'his' face!!!!! Fair is fair.
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 06/17/2004 00:27:38 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 00:22:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
At the same time, only about a third of the public say that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is well supported by evidence.
Don't just tell a little lie that nobody believes, tell the biggest lie you can think of, and the masses will follow. --Hitler |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 00:34:52 [Permalink]
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| Yeah like I said 10% are hard core evoluiontists with 37% riding the pine better than anybody I ever knew! What a bunch of people that couldn't make up thier minds to save their souls! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 02:31:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Actually, I think I may have found his source, but he is misleading it completely. According to Gallup Polls, 12% of people believe that evolution happens without gods presence, however he (somehow) failed to mention that 37% of people believe that evolution was help by god. So, if we take this the mathimatical way, 12+37=49, almost half. But wait, it gets worse for Verlch. According to the poles, 6% of the people had no opinion, so only 45% of people believe that evolution doesn't happen. Guess what, 45 < 49. So even if he wants to argue from Appeal to Popularity, he still loses.
http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/creation/evol-poll.htm
I had thought the actual numbers were something like that but hadn't heard nor read anything about it in quite a while. Kinda sad, when you think about it.
Thanks.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 06:42:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
You have no source, do you? You have no support for any of your assertions. You have nothing but wind; nothing but a mildly irritating noise that is gone and forgotten as soon as you close your ignorant mouth. And now you resort to an argument from popularity; an unsupported argument from popularity -- that is genuinely humorous.
See Filthy here is a fine example of a wonderful friend of mine named 'punch me in the balls.' I have to sit and wade through grade school attacks before I can get to the good stuff. I don't think it's fair for 'Mr. Havard' here to attack me and then I have to keep my mouth shut!
I've had to hear this endlessly, but I mouthed off back and I get censured. As long as I don't 'offend' the 'offended', why not let me 'attack' in a round about way and 'keep' my 'dignity' intact while letting the 'attacker' know a man with wits and oozing with 'toughness' will not be 'sucker punched' with a smile on 'his' face!!!!! Fair is fair.
And your source cite is.........where?
C'mon. At least TRY to defend your position. Your cries of oppression are duely noted and discarded due to lack of support. Again, cite your sources for ANY of the assertations here.
Your 10% figure has been debunked. the actual number of people who believe that evolution happens is 49% per Ricky's source. (Of which he provided a link.) Whether they personally believe a devine being had a hand in it is immaterial to the discussion. Since 7% of US voters in 2000 claim to be atheist, Does the 10% number really suprise you? 89% of the population adheres to Christianity/Catholicism. Is it unreasonable to expect the portion of the population which believes in God would not seek to insert that belief as the motivation for evolution?
Source US voters 2000
http://www.atheistempire.com/reference/stats/
Census breakdowns page 62
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/statab/sec01.pdf
Filthy is expressing frustration at your lack of source cites and not defending your assertations. You also assume that a belief in God and acceptance of evolution are mutually exclusive. They are not. Evolution makes no comment on religion or the existance of a supreme being. It describes the fact that species change over time and attempts to explain the mechanism for that change. Whether a supreme being is directing this is immaterial to evolution.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 07:04:35 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
...and then I have to keep my mouth shut!
I've had to hear this endlessly, but I mouthed off back and I get censured...
Lies. You've never been told to keep your mouth shut here, and you've never (yet) been censured (or censored, for that matter).
The best thing you could do when "attacked" for not providing support for your opinions is to provide support for your opinions. Wouldn't it be more satisfying to show others here that you are correct than it is to "mouth off" in retaliation? Doesn't making people eat crow feel better than going "neener-neener-neener?"
My patience is wearing extremely thin. While filthy needs to lay off poking at you for a bit, you need to lay off your persecution complex long enough to show that your posts here are worthwhile. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 08:13:25 [Permalink]
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'K. I'll go back to making nice, as best I can.
But I fear that......... No.. Must..Make..Nice... Argh!!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 09:35:27 [Permalink]
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I have so far resisted offering my two cents on this thread. While I stand by my assertion that Verlch is a closed circuit and unlikely to change I offer this:
This forum is not a soapbox. This site is about critical thinking, as Dave pointed out by posting our mission statement for Verlch to read. Debates are fine but we are not providing a forum for anyone who takes issue with our views to simply state their opinions. A laundry list of claims without any attempt to support those claims can be done in a park, in front of city hall or wherever. It is a first amendment right and Verlch has the right to his opinions. However, as much as we are interested in those opinions, as a site that promotes critical thinking we do have the right to ask for support for those claims. That is not an attack on Verlch, as he sees it, but an insistence that on this forum critical thinking will be continuously promoted.
Dave has bent over backwards to provide Verlch a forum to make his case. (I would have ended this long ago. It was Dave who honestly felt that given the proper chance, Verlch would understand what we are about and make an attempt to qualify his remarks.) So Verlch's claim of censorship is simply ridiculous.
Verlch, if you look closely at what you think are attacks on you, you will see that much of what has been said is out of frustration at your refusal to support your claims. This thread was set up so you could do just that. Support your claims.
Since the demands of critical thinking are apparently outside your ability to comprehend and incorporate into your debating style, you really have no place on this site. There are plenty of sites that would welcome your views with open arms and without the demand that those views be supported in some way. Why bother with us? We asked you to move to another level of debate and you just can't go there. We have asked other creationists to support their views and most have complied. We have never punted any of them and have engaged them in a meaningful debate, raised the level of dialog and hopefully learned at least a little something along the way on all sides. You are not being singled out as a creationist...
Believe what you like. But on this site, either rise to a challenge or move on...
For my part, I will continue to view your statements of fact as nothing more than opinions, and regard this thread as a dead end. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 19:24:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your 10% figure has been debunked. the actual number of people who believe that evolution happens is 49% per Ricky's source.
No the 37% is the total 'can't make up my mind group.' So the just mix the two and go about their lives, not really caring either way. Sure God made the world, science says it evolved and now I will quietly sit here on the pine fence and enjoy the fact I haven't a backbone in my back, or a mind to make 'up'.
They still believe in God, how is that helpful for your theory that life arouse out of nohting without a shread of help from God? With every public school in the country preaching and teaching a theory about God that he can make live, but not good enough so it has to evolve, for no apparent reason. So God is weak you say, I think the opposite, if God can call a star into existance with His voice he can also create anything he wants. Human in human form, why would he need to create a monkey that evolves outside the womb, into a red blooded human. Your missing links don't make sense.
(Please no punches fromm behind me, I like to see who is about to punch me in the face!)(If I take offense to your comments back at me, I will not sit here like a wimp, I will attack back.) |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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