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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2004 : 19:16:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Isn't that just a bit inconsistent?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was thinking that. Inconsistant Prophet might be a better name. Either you take what the government says with a grain of salt or you don't. If you don't, don't say that you do.
The problems you have with the UN are mostly of the USA's making. If you knew what it would take to fix the UN's difficulties I can imagine you complaining even louder. If we didn't tie the UN's hands so much it could do a lot more. What nation has used the veto more than any other? Can you say the USA? The USA is the nation abusing its leadership status and then someone like you actually has the balls to complain about it because you want it both ways.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2004 : 19:23:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
We are at war, and a war president is what is needed.
Yep, the war president was all there for everyone to see with his quick thinking and ability to take charge of things after the planes hit.......
Sir.....sir....seven minutes and counting.....our country is under attack....sir....SIR???????
War president....indeed!!!!! |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2004 : 19:27:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
Isn't that just a bit inconsistent?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was thinking that. Inconsistant Prophet might be a better name. Either you take what the government says with a grain of salt or you don't. If you don't, don't say that you do.
The problems you have with the UN are mostly of the USA's making. If you knew what it would take to fix the UN's difficulties I can imagine you complaining even louder. If we didn't tie the UN's hands so much it could do a lot more. What nation has used the veto more than any other? Can you say the USA? The USA is the nation abusing its leadership status and then someone like you actually has the balls to complain about it because you want it both ways.
@
Talking about veto's, Israel is asking the U.S. to veto any possible resolution regarding the illegal wall in the Gaza strip....
The U.S. to use its power of veto at Israel's request????
They wouldn't would they???
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2004 : 21:59:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Reluctant Prophet
This war started many years ago, whether declared and/or recognized or not. How long has there been the scream for the blood of Americans? It may be louder now, but it is still the same scream. The Bush foreign policy did not cause the screaming, it started long ago.
As far as reform in Iran, they have had many years to sweep up and to quit exporting terrorism. Will it take one nuke in the states courtesy of Iran for people to wake up, or will it take 29.
I said nothing about the war being for the liberation of Iraq. That is just more spin. Pointing spin out is rhetoric, because that is all politics has become. Or has it always been that way?
First resort, seconed resort? Peaceful Clinton years? Hostages in Iran, Barracks in Beruit, Embassies in several areas, the USS Cole, Osama in Somalia. Just off of the top of my head. War is war, declared or not. The choices are offensive, or defensive. There is no middle ground.
But then again, you're right. I must be smoking something to think that 1) enogh people can recognize this, and 2) this country could pull together to do something about it.
The problem is that you're not facing countries or people here, you're facing terorrists. They act out of a hatred of the Western world. You're not going to stop them hating the Western world by invading their countries, it's that simple. If anything came out of the war in Iraq, it's more arabs hating the west (and the US especially). The islamic (pro-USA) reform movements in countries like Iran and Egypt have taken a hard blow because of the war in Iraq. If anything, at this moment the world is a more dangerous place for us than it was before the war. We must all hope that the US with it's allies will be able to make a democratic state of Iraq with free and content iraqi citizens. If that effort fails, I fear for the future. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 05:32:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Reluctant Prophet
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As one American, as well as to quote our brave war president, as far as the GOP's convention is concerned. "Bring it on!"
Real nice, ever hear of 'Speak no evil?', especially when it comes to your own fellow citizens, loathe them or not? Wake up, we are at war, and had been for some time, before we openly declared it.
We are at war, and a war president is what is needed. He far from perfect, but at least I know which way this administration is pointed, however crocked the arrow. We may have gone to war over false or misleading intelligence, but at least we finally, and openly, have gone to war.
I think Iraq is a great staging area for a war with Iran, which is also needed if their citizens do not effect their own regieme change.
Are you out of your fucking mind???? You don't vote for the idiot that got you in the war you didn't need to fight just because you're IN the war and you want to support your idiot 'war President.' You get RID of the IDIOT who got you in the war before he does something WORSE! There's no telling what this jack-ass will do if he gets another term!!!! Why oh why is this country so afflicted with mindless citizens? |
-Chaloobi
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Hobbes
New Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 09:54:54 [Permalink]
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| The biggest question on my mind, regardless of the misguided thinking that got us into this war to start with, is "What next?" We're stuck in Iraq; we can't pull out without totally destabilizing the nation.... What should be the next move? |
And Newton said, "y'= lim h->0 of [f(x+h)-f(x)]/[(x+h)-x], thus, Calculus was born, and Newton saw that it was good. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 10:34:45 [Permalink]
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| First step is for George Bush to admit his crimes and resign, second step is to leave. Destabilize? Seen it lately? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 10:37:34 [Permalink]
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| I'm sure GW has an exit strategy up his sleeve. Just vote for him in November and you'll see he's got it covered. |
-Chaloobi
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PolarBear
New Member
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 11:00:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
First step is for George Bush to admit his crimes and resign, second step is to leave. Destabilize? Seen it lately?
Point taken, but isn't our responsibility to repair what we've broken? |
Not only does god play dice, but they are loaded, can change shape and location, and can borrow energy as long as the universe at large fails to notice. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 11:05:14 [Permalink]
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[quoteSpeaking of that, I heard that the new Iraqi government has pretty much declared Martial Law. I don't remember where I heard this, can anyone confrim/deny this (some sources would be nice)?
[/quote]
I am not sure. I did a search on the New York Times site. The iraqi government adopted a law which allows them to declare Martial law if the situation requires. However, I found nothing which states that they have adopted such a law or something similar. Maybe someone else knows more about it though. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 11:10:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes
The biggest question on my mind, regardless of the misguided thinking that got us into this war to start with, is "What next?" We're stuck in Iraq; we can't pull out without totally destabilizing the nation.... What should be the next move?
1) Replace Bush thereby somewhat improving diplomatic relations with other nations.
2) (preferrable but unlikely) submit Bush to a war crimes tribunal.
3) Get a real coalition of states to fix the mess that Bush wrought.
4) Support the new Iraqi government until they are able to defend themselves.
5) Pull out a UN force rather than a strictly US force. (UK presence is significantly less than US presence. Other nations are even less significantly present than the UK. Coincidence? I think not.)
We do have to fix what a criminal started. The first thing to do is get rid of the criminal. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 14:02:23 [Permalink]
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| Oh, by the by, anyone else a little skittish with the announcement that Tom Ridge is looking into the legal method to postpone the Presidential election in case of "terrorist attack"? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 14:17:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh, by the by, anyone else a little skittish with the announcement that Tom Ridge is looking into the legal method to postpone the Presidential election in case of "terrorist attack"?
What a precedent that would set!
I want to add that I am tired of hearing Bush die-hards argue that since Bush is President he is the only one that could have done a good job against terrorism and therefore we shouldn't have a change of leadership. This is flawed logic. Considering all the mistakes that have been made I think you could argue that anyone else would have done better. I think a smart person would want to at least explore that thought in light of the poor leadership we currently have.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 14:40:39 [Permalink]
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Dang! Ya beat me to it, VD. Shrub and his team of patriots, may just try to extend his term, till "the job" is done..., there's still a little bit of the 'Bill of Rights' left, and a growing number of reconstruction contracts to award to the right kind of guys.
There was a time when I would have laughed at this suggestion, but after this whole silver-spoon-up-his-butt Bush adminstration's power grab mandate, and the late and meek outcry of the free, dunno any more...
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