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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2004 : 20:39:47 [Permalink]
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"Many of coberst's other argument are couched in ignorance (he's said, "well, I haven't read much about [insert subject here], but my conclusions are..." on several occassions), so perhaps his entire self-proclaimed purpose is based upon ignorance of what is going on in the real world, just like his knowledge of philosophy ends over 200 years ago."
I just want to point out, its better that he is honest in saying he hasn't read much, then go around and pretend that he knows everything like a quack.
"It is said that those who can't do, teach, but coberst has admitted to being unqualified to teach critical thinking."
To be really off topic here, I'm reminded of the bud light commerical:
"Those who can't play, coach. Apparently, those who can't coach, sit 30 rows back shouting obscenities." |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 02:31:26 [Permalink]
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Ricky
We do agree about those in the grand stands shouting obscentities. I had not thought about it but that sports analogy is very appropriate in the matters dealing with new memes. Obscentities do seem to be part of the arsenal of the opposition. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 05:21:02 [Permalink]
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coberst, just because you aren't using obscenities doesn't mean that you're acting rationally. Your inability to deal with the meme presented to you is demonstration enough.
Ricky, you're right about his honesty, but it really shows off the hypocrisy. People have told him, in effect, that there are things he doesn't know which might change his opinion, and he replies - almost invariably - "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree." Coming from a self-proclaimed critical thinker, it makes no sense. He is, in effect, saying "I don't know what you're talking about, but my conclusion on the subject is rock-solid and inflexible." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 08:11:33 [Permalink]
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Dave
I am pleased that you are beginning to speak like a Critical Thinker. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 09:12:02 [Permalink]
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Note to Coberst:
A skeptic employs critical thinking to evaluate claims. It is a method, not unlike and related to the "Scientific Method." It may be broader than the scientific method in that some claims cannot be physically tested. So we rely on reason and logic and teach ourselves to spot claims of fact that are not necessarily facts at all. All conclusions are tentative which means a skeptic must remain open minded or he/she may miss a valid claim.
If a critical thinker is unwilling to support his own claims, he cannot very well call himself a critical thinker. Just a person with opinions, is all. Now, that is OK as far as it goes, but it isn't critical thinking.
Either defend your claims (premises) or be confident in your own mind that your critical thinking skills are so far beyond ours that we should be sitting at your feet and calling you "master." Defending your claims will earn you our respect, even if your claim turns out to be lacking. I can almost guarantee that we will not opt for sitting at your feet waiting for your next brilliant observation... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 12:57:44 [Permalink]
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coberst wrote:quote:
I am pleased that you are beginning to speak like a Critical Thinker.
I am saddened to see that you are not. I am disappointed to see that you think I am just "beginning" to speak like a critical thinker, when in fact nearly every post I've written to you contains such examples. In other words, it concerns me that your inability to think rationally about your goals continues unabated. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 02:47:06 [Permalink]
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Apparently it is human nature to erect intellectual barriers to new ideas as this thread so abundantly verifies. It is important to examine new ideas before acceptance but one must also be careful not to “throw out the baby with the bath water”. It is great fun to gather friends together to heckle individuals who propose new thoughts. However, in the enthusiasm of this entertainment one does sometimes miss an opportunity to add a new and important idea to their database.
Critical Thinking is a new idea to most of the adult population; however, a great deal of effort has been invested in this very important concept. The educational system has been working at its introduction into our schools and colleges for many years.
The concept of self-learning, I suspect, is not one that carries a great deal of appeal to individuals younger than forty. However, I think that when we have the family well begun and our career ambitions have cooled it can provide a very satisfying and valuable intellectual hobby.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 04:38:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by coberst
Apparently it is human nature to erect intellectual barriers to new ideas as this thread so abundantly verifies. It is important to examine new ideas before acceptance but one must also be careful not to “throw out the baby with the bath water”.
Before we can throw out the (your) baby with the tub water, you have to put a baby in the tub.
With your opening post, you have barely filled the tub with water...
quote:
However, in the enthusiasm of this entertainment one does sometimes miss an opportunity to add a new and important idea to their database.
It wasn't even fresh and warm water you were filling the tub with. Just some old stuff we had already seen.
quote:
Critical Thinking is a new idea to most of the adult population;
...but not to majority at this site. Skeptic Friends Network is a hang-around place for critical thinkers.
You are trying to preach/teach to the choir how to sing children's songs. It's the guaranteed method of boring us.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 05:10:08 [Permalink]
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The only difference that I can see between Verlich and Coberst is that Coberst uses larger words.
How interesting....
edited for spelling.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 07/20/2004 05:12:14 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:20:07 [Permalink]
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And another thing, coberst: tossing pseudo-intellectual feces around doesn't always involve the use of obscenities, as your posts demonstrate very well.
You appear to think that because you've concluded that most adults aren't interested in self-learning, that we on the SFN are not. This is false, and plainly contradicted by evidence available to you.
You also appear to think that anyone who disagrees with your idea that what you've got to say is somehow "new" (perhaps it was new with Hume) is a heckler, and uninterested in critical thinking. This is also false, and also plainly contradicted by the evidence available to you.
Since you ignore such evidence, which sits in plain sight for all to witness, furshur is absolutely correct that you are little different from the typical young-Earth creationist, fundamentalist Christian.
Of course, by us saying so, it will simply feed into your delusional persecution complex: you'll feel more justified in spewing your nonsense across this site (and others), but what's really happening is that you are willfully ignoring our points. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 19:29:55 [Permalink]
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This is like a hangnail: you just can't leave it alone...
A comment over on Panda's Thumb got me thinking about coberst again. He appears to be trying to set himself up to be either a "leading light" of the critical-thinking movement, or a martyr for it. Most-likely the latter, given his comments of late both here and on BABB.
But usually, martyrs meet their doom at the hands of people who do not agree with them. I mean, aside from the fact that he just won't listen to anyone (or otherwise behave like he's got a critical thought in his head), the basic problem between coberst and I is how he pursues his goals, not the goals themselves. I don't have any "doctrinal" differences with him, I just can't agree with his methods.
Of late, coberst's posts have been analogous to some hypothetical mad Christian railing at other Christians "you're afraid to have faith in God, that's why you're attacking me," and ignoring the entire crowd around him who say, "but we do believe, you idiot, we just think you should preach non-stop to those heathen over there, instead of to us, the already-faithful." And in reply, the one simply repeats his rants, perhaps using different words.
Surely, the crowd is not going to shed a tear when the mad one either shuts up or dies. Martyrdoom, in such a case, is illusory, and frankly, a pathetic dream. Which makes me wonder if coberst has already tried these things on larger, less-focused forums, and failed to generate the hostility towards himself he desired.
On the other hand, I was never much of a fan of pop psychology. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 00:59:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Martyrdoom, in such a case, is illusory, and frankly, a pathetic dream. Which makes me wonder if coberst has already tried these things on larger, less-focused forums, and failed to generate the hostility towards himself he desired.
In that case, I would recommend Rapture Ready. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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