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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2004 : 05:56:36 [Permalink]
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coberst - There is one thing you keep stating over and over that no one has addressed, and it's really bugging me.
Who do you know that thinks critical thinking means, "I think, and I'm critical. Therefore, I'm a critical thinker."
You keep saying you suspect that's what we all think critical thinking is. FYI - We don't. |
"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 07:20:13 [Permalink]
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The standard human response to a new idea is to do a turtle (close the mind). After a person is exposed to an idea many times the mind slowly opens. When the idea is no longer new the mind opens and is receptive to new info. I am Johnny Appleseed of CT and go across the land exposing the new ideas to the closed minds. It is dirty work but someone must do it.
Anyone knowledgeable of CT wishes all to be knowledgeable of CT
Many in this forum oppose exposure of others to CT
Therefore many in this forum are not knowledgeable of CT
How'bt them apples.
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 07:25:01 [Permalink]
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SciFi
When people keep responding that they know CT and it is obvious they do not know CT I try to understand what is going on. I have no reason to think these people are lying so I must assume that are ignorant of CT. I then reason that they think that since the two words make sense in the way that I assume they think I then conclude as stated. Did I confuse you? I certainly did myself. But you get the drift. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 08:08:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by coberst
The standard human response to a new idea is to do a turtle (close the mind). After a person is exposed to an idea many times the mind slowly opens. When the idea is no longer new the mind opens and is receptive to new info. I am Johnny Appleseed of CT and go across the land exposing the new ideas to the closed minds. It is dirty work but someone must do it.
Anyone knowledgeable of CT wishes all to be knowledgeable of CT
Many in this forum oppose exposure of others to CT
Therefore many in this forum are not knowledgeable of CT
How'bt them apples.
They must be mystical apples because many people in this forum have been calling you on the carpet for lack of CT.
We have been engaging you on a myriad of subjects and correcting premises which are demonstrably wrong. We have pointed these things out to you and been labled by you as closed minded. Noone here has remotely suggested that people should not be exposed to CT. They have suggested that what you are proposing as CT is not an application of it.
I would suggest that you study this site.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
It is the basis of CT. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 09:14:51 [Permalink]
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It appears that a basic lesson in logic is required. coberst, your argument cannot be agreed upon unless all parties agree to the premises, as follows:
coberst wrote:quote:
Anyone knowledgeable of CT wishes all to be knowledgeable of CT
I think most people here will agree with that.quote:
Many in this forum oppose exposure of others to CT
Nobody here agrees with that, except you. You have provided no evidence - other than your say-so - that it is true. It is not axiomatic.
And the "logic" you use to support that premise is circular. You say that people who are opposed to the spread of critical thinking claim that they already think critically. People who "obviously" aren't critical thinkers are those who oppose your methods. That's nothing but subjective, arrogant crap.
You have yet - in any forum - to demonstrate that someone else has failed to think critically about what you've written. Instead, you have only spouted judgemental nonsense, and further shown your own inability to think critically, teach critical thinking, and promote critical thinking.
In fact, every single judgement of others which you have made here in these and other forums - their "heckling" or ability to think critically - is applicable to you, coberst. This is, in psychology circles, called "projection," if I remember correctly. You know what your own faults are, but attribute them to others in a narcistic orgy of self-congratulation.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 10:28:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
coberst:Anyone knowledgeable of CT wishes all to be knowledgeable of CT
I know this has been done before, but I will refer you to our mission statement. It reads:
quote:
The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.
quote:
coberst:
Many in this forum oppose exposure of others to CT
That is such crap. That you have been challenged on many assertions you have made is critical thinking in action. That you will not rise to defend your assertions shows a lack of critical thinking. That you call your detractors "turtles" or "hecklers" shows that you really don't wish to hear anything but your own voice on the subject. You are in no position to pontificate on critical thinking if you are not willing to defend your views. Furthermore, you show a distinct unwillingness to learn new things when you reject criticism out of hand or respond with ad hominem attacks at those who challenge you. I'm sorry, but as far as I can see from reading the posts in your threads, you present as the most close minded self proclaimed critical thinker I have ever seen...
quote:
coberst:
Therefore many in this forum are not knowledgeable of CT
To me, at least one person comes to mind...
Im gonna pull rank now. I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life to critical thinking. I have written many essays on the subject and at least one of those is considered essential reading at Robert Carrols "Skeptic Refuge" area of the "Skeptic Dictionary." I am a cofounder of this site. I have defended Evolution in front of a church audience in a debate with an old earth creationist. I regularly attend special events at the Center for Inquiry West. I helped to expose Steve Garvey and Enforma products to a credulous public. The open letter series lead to an interview by a reporter for salon.com and I received regular updates by the FTC attorney in charge of prosecuting Enforma. I have been asked to present the skeptics view of UFO's on TLC. (I turned that down because I am shy and the show was going to be pro the other side.) I am 54 years old and also mostly self taught.
I could go on but why should I?
I am proud of level of thought that goes into the posts on this site. Critical thinking is alive and well here. I have been called to task for shooting from the hip from time to time. And I appreciate that my remarks are not simply accepted just because I made them. Many times I have had to alter my thinking or defend an assertion. That is what happens when you place yourself among other critical thinkers. Ya just don't get away with much. Again, critical thinking in action.
And critical thinking in action is exactly what you are missing. You seem to be satisfied pontificating on a subject you are unwilling to employ.
Sadly, these remarks will probably fall onto deaf ears...
edited: for this and that...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 11:36:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Ricky:
Damn Kil, thats quite a resume.
Hopefully, it is understood that the idea of listing those things was not to toot my horn, but cause coberst to climb down off his perch. (Boy, does that feel like a mixed metaphor.) A reality reference, if you will. There are members of SFN who have better developed critical thinking skills than I have. I'm still working on it. I have learned a lot reading posts on this site... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 13:59:00 [Permalink]
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That right. Kil is an elite critical thinker which he will never let us forget! Ohhhh I'm just joshing you Kil. No one has cornered the market on critical thinking and even the best of us can be fooled once in a while. But being fooled doesn't mean you are not a critical thinker.
But we are here for the purpose of critical thinking and many bright folks do their best to keep everyone on their toes. I can't think of any regular visitor to this forum that opposes exposure to critical thinking. Forget about our mission statement because even the ICR could have critical thinking mentioned in theirs if they wanted. But opposition to critical thinking?
quote:
You know what your own faults are, but attribute them to others in a narcistic orgy of self-congratulation.
Just thought I would repeat Dave's Sentence of the Day.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 14:11:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
@tomic:
That right. Kil is an elite critical thinker which he will never let us forget!
I had a feeling that paragraph would come back and bite me... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 17:17:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Posted by coberst:The standard human response to a new idea is to do a turtle (close the mind).
It is? Well, can you provide some evidence to that effect? Because I have to say that my own response to new ideas is often curiosity, always interest, and never a turtle. Maybe that's evidence for you that I'm an alien or something....?
quote:
Posted by coberst: After a person is exposed to an idea many times the mind slowly opens. When the idea is no longer new the mind opens and is receptive to new info. I am Johnny Appleseed of CT and go across the land exposing the new ideas to the closed minds. It is dirty work but someone must do it.
Ok. In an instance like this it is OK to call a person's credentials into question. If I were seeking a mentor in the CT arena, why would I choose coberst?
Also, if I'm not mistaken, you coberst have stated on these boards that you're uninterested in speaking to your local/state/federal politicians concerning CT, that you're unwilling to even contact your local school boards (elected officials) and present your concerns about lack of CT.
quote:
Posted by Kil:And I appreciate that my remarks are not simply accepted just because I made them. Many times I have had to alter my thinking or defend an assertion. That is what happens when you place yourself among other critical thinkers. Ya just don't get away with much.
Well said Kil. Speaking for myself only, the reason I even looked for an open critical thinking forum on the net was to expand my own CT skills and learn. Something coberst seems to not have grasped, and it's essential to the CT process. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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