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Wulfstan
New Member
USA
42 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2004 : 22:18:39
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chaloobi wrote:
quote:
My daughter just finished her first year in a Montosorri program. So far I like it quite a bit. I don't know where that falls into your essay on education or not, but I just thought I'd mention it. I recall reading an article in Harper's a while back that cited the reasoning behind the development of the US system of education.
I believe the article you are speaking of is in Harper's September 2003 issue. I save all my Harper's and remembered the cover picture--it was the feature article. I searched online and lots of people reprinted it (illegally?). Harper's makes you buy their back issues (fair enough, their subscription is relatively cheap).
So, if anyone is interested, here it is below (thanks chaloobi):
Excerpt:
quote:
John Taylor Gatto is a former New York State and New York City Teacher of the
Year and the author, most recently, of The Underground History of American
Education. He was a participant in the Harper's Magazine forum "School on a Hill,"
which appeared in the September 2001 issue.
I taught for thirty years in some of the worst schools in Manhattan, and in some of the best, and during that time I became an expert in boredom. Boredom was everywhere in my world, and if you asked the kids, as I often did, why they felt so bored, they always gave the same answers: They said the work was stupid, that it made no sense, that they already knew it. They said they wanted to be doing something real, not just sitting around. They said teachers didn't seem to know much about their subjects and clearly weren't interested in learning more. And the kids were right: their teachers were every bit as bored as they were.
Boredom is the common condition of schoolteachers, and anyone who has spent time in a teachers' lounge can vouch for the low energy, the whining, the dispirited attitudes, to be found there. When asked why they feel bored, the teachers tend to blame the kids, as you might expect. Who wouldn't get bored teaching students who are rude and interested only in grades? If even that. Of course, teachers are themselves products of the same twelve-year compulsory school programs that so thoroughly bore their students, and as school personnel they are trapped inside structures even more rigid than those imposed upon the children. Who, then, is to blame?
Link: http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 08:46:45 [Permalink]
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If you're fond of John Taylor Gatto, you should visit his site. He has posted his entire book there to read for free. I started reading it, but once you bring in conspiracy theories, you kind of lose me. Also, his book seems to be dealing primarily with the problem and not offering a solution.
Finally, there was a distinctive Christian "feel" about it, which really turned me off. However, I'd love to hear other skeptic opinions.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/ |
"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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Les
Skeptic Friend
59 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 22:48:33 [Permalink]
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SciFi Chick,
I've started homeschooling and have been reading a lot of material on the subject. Gatto's rather radical in his sinister theories on the origins and purposes of public education, but I find his conclusions regarding the public school's ability to teach kids according to their individual needs to be in accordance with my own observations and opinions.
I recently read "Family Matters" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0156300001/qid=1091079087/sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_3/103-4044364-7465443?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by David Guterson (he wrote "Snow Falling on Cedars") and it's a very relaxed and open-minded critique of the public school system (he was a high school English teacher when he wrote it). He also explains why he and his wife chose to homeschool and how they do it. He offers lots of suggestions as to how public schools can work more closely with families (including homeschoolers) so that kids can get the individual attention they need to really learn things.
I belong to a local group of homeschoolers and there are a few fundamentalists who do it for religious reasons, but most, while having religious beliefs, don't homeschool for religious reasons (at least that's true in my group). And there are even a few secularists like myself.
Also, Grace Llewellyn is really interesting. She wrote "The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How To Quit School And Get A Real Life And Education" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=1091079536/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/103-4044364-7465443)
Waitaminute. You just asked for a skeptical opinion of Gatto. Sorry, got a little carried away. |
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Wulfstan
New Member
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 04:54:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
I started reading it, but once you bring in conspiracy theories, you kind of lose me.
Other than the article, I have read nothing by Gatto. What are his "conspiracy theories?" Or, more precisely, what do you consider to be a conspiracy theory in that book? |
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 05:52:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wulfstan
quote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
I started reading it, but once you bring in conspiracy theories, you kind of lose me.
Other than the article, I have read nothing by Gatto. What are his "conspiracy theories?" Or, more precisely, what do you consider to be a conspiracy theory in that book?
He is of the opinion that rich folks like the Rockefellers got together and purposely lowered the education standards so that the average American would be content as a worker bee for the large corporations. That is a simplified version. If you've ever looked at conspiracy theory sites, they have a tendency to take three pages to say what can be summed up in a paragraph. 
quote:
Originally posted by Les
I've started homeschooling and have been reading a lot of material on the subject. Gatto's rather radical in his sinister theories on the origins and purposes of public education, but I find his conclusions regarding the public school's ability to teach kids according to their individual needs to be in accordance with my own observations and opinions.
Ah, yes. That sums it up perfectly. He seems convinced that it was intentional, when the inefficiency of bureaucracy is a more likely explanation.
I haven't had the joy of having children, but if I ever do, they more than likely won't get public school educations. Hopefully, I'll be able to afford a nice private school, but then again, I think it depends on where you live as to whether or not the public schools are good.
You mentioning secularists home schooling their children brings to mind a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode in which Buffy says, "Home schooling: It's not just for scary religious people anymore." 
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"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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