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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2004 : 19:50:07
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Just watched the Kerry speech....
It's bed time here, just finished a 12 hour day. I prefer the opinion section from here than the editorials in newspapers.
How are the Kerry and the Dems going in your area?
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 03:51:14 [Permalink]
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Gezza,
It never seases to amaze me why you have any interest at all in US politics. Most Americans don't...
Anyway, Kerry did show enough life to raise himself a step or two above the dead in personality. Unfortunately, most folks in Louisiana have already made up their minds. What matters is if Kerry can motivate the Dems to show up at the polls, because I can assure you that the Repugs will.
So, if Kerry and Edwards can motivate people enough, they have a chance of winning this state, and it's electorial votes. If it rains on election day, then Bush will win.
Sounds terribly cynical--Doesn't it? I think I just elevated skepticism to cynicism.
Anyway man, are you simply interested in American politics, or do you just want to see the Bushies fall so that the entire world can breathe easy once again?
Like most Americans, I don't even know who y'all's Prime Minister is. Is it still Howard? At least, I know you have a Parlimentary government. That's better than most people I know.
By the way, where in the world did the word Hansard come from? And, why? |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 05:42:35 [Permalink]
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They tell me I live in a liberal oasis here in the Northwest. But most people I know support Kerry.
I like Kerry a lot. I think he lacks Clinton's charisma or Sharpton's passion...but I don't know that either of those things is a requirement to be a good president.
I love that Kerry is wonkish, serious, intelligent, and thoughtful. It seems to me those are GOOD qualities in a president.
It baffles and frightens me that Bush still has so much support, especially in the "heartland", whatever that is. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 06:55:24 [Permalink]
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I'm probably going to find myself going along with the anyone-but-bush crowd, so it doesn't make much difference to me what he said or didn't say. I will read the summaries, though.
I did see Al and Dennis. I supported Kucinich. Didn't support Al, but I thought his speech stole the show that night. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:11:48 [Permalink]
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| Here in Texas, as you can guess, is overwhelmingly pro Bush. There are vocal Kerry supporters here, mostly in the larger cities such as Dallas, Austin and Houston. My problem with the electoral college is that pro Kerry voters really have no say in the election. Their vote does not count to the election of Kerry since Texas is going to go Bush. The popular vote seems a much more fair way of voting and maybe more people would vote. Any way it is done it will be another close election. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:26:31 [Permalink]
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While I think that Kerry gave the exact speech he needed to give, it wasn't a barn-burner. I loved the way he severly trashed Bush without actually trashing him. He's got a damned good writer working for him.
Anyhow, I think the speech gave him some needed definition -- who he is and where he's coming from. And he managed to do it without appearing to use notes or a teleprompter (I'm sure he used the tele, but I couldn't catch him at it). He also didn't say, "Uh..." a couple of times a sentence, then make you wait between sentences. Indeed, I saw very few stumbles and those few weren't serious. His message was clear if not precise to the final jot and tittle.
Taken all in, an excellent performance. I had feared much worse, especally after having to follow some really tough acts -- Clinton, and so forth.
I am looking forward to the GOP froth-out to get a comparison.
This is going to be a fascinating campaign, at least for the strong of stomach.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:55:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
While I think that Kerry gave the exact speech he needed to give, it wasn't a barn-burner. I loved the way he severly trashed Bush without actually trashing him. He's got a damned good writer working for him.
I think Kerry gave a great speech last night but it was the Same ol dung! He says they will not do negative attacks against Bush and then he goes ahead and does it. Both sides have been negative, and it seems thats the way it has always been.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 08:13:10 [Permalink]
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Ach yea, Robby me bye, 'tis true, 'tis true.
But at least Kerry managed to bring it off with a little class. 
Which is why I intend to catch at least some of the Repub Convention and, after loading up on Alki-Seltzer, Bush's speeech. I have a feeling that it will be like a Gallager show and the front rows will need raincoats. Perhaps I'm wrong. Hope so.
I remember the first Clinton campaign when almost every fifth and sixth words spoken by Bush Senior was, "Those bozos!" Like father, like son, they say.
I have read that Bush has recently been prescribed some sort of sledge-hammer anti-depressent to quell eratic behavior and ill-temper. How might this affect his performance at the convention, I wonder?
Edited to add the following link:
quote:
The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, can impair the President's mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis, administration aides admit privately.
I think that this is serious shit for someone with an addictive personality to start with, even if not in high (chuckle) office.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4921.shtml |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/30/2004 08:51:51 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 09:03:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Robb:
My problem with the electoral college is that pro Kerry voters really have no say in the election. Their vote does not count to the election of Kerry since Texas is going to go Bush. The popular vote seems a much more fair way of voting and maybe more people would vote. Any way it is done it will be another close election.
It would certainly serve the democrats of the elections were a straight up popular vote. Thing is, since some states are way less populated than others, the electoral college still serves a purpose. Mostly rural states would have no chance of there votes counting for much if the college was eliminated. As a result, they would, in effect, be cut out of the electoral process. And that could result in those states being marginalized a the point that the needs of those states, not being of any political importance, would not be met. Out of sight, out of mind.
It bums me out that those states are, for them most part, conservative. But in all fairness, they should have a voice too. And the electoral college gives them that voice... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 09:23:36 [Permalink]
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(Da filth takes a big slug of Maalox and bourbon, bites his tongue, and agrees with Kil.) 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 10:20:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
It would certainly serve the democrats of the elections were a straight up popular vote. Thing is, since some states are way less populated than others, the electoral college still serves a purpose. Mostly rural states would have no chance of there votes counting for much if the college was eliminated. As a result, they would, in effect, be cut out of the electoral process. And that could result in those states being marginalized a the point that the needs of those states, not being of any political importance, would not be met. Out of sight, out of mind.
I am not sure I agree with your point but I am still thinking about it. I don't understand why states would be marginalized if we went with the popular vote. If we went with the popular vote, then every vote a candidate could get would be worthwhile. As it is, here in Texas we see few political adds (this may be a blessing) and each candidate doesn't spend much time here to talk about issues that are important to Texans. I would think that even in a small state, candidates would want to take care of the voters if the popular vote is instituted. Let me know where I am going wrong.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 11:32:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Robb:
I don't understand why states would be marginalized if we went with the popular vote. If we went with the popular vote, then every vote a candidate could get would be worthwhile. As it is, here in Texas we see few political adds (this may be a blessing) and each candidate doesn't spend much time here to talk about issues that are important to Texans. I would think that even in a small state, candidates would want to take care of the voters if the popular vote is instituted. Let me know where I am going wrong.
If the popular vote was instituted, candidates for president would be forced to concentrate their campaigns in higher populated urban areas. While every vote may count, a few votes from Wyoming may not be worth the time and money it would take to get those votes. You would have the coasts, mostly, deciding who gets to be president. Since most states are a winner take all for electoral votes, the less populated states are better represented, in terms of clout, when it comes time for them to cast those electoral votes. If a state is somewhat evenly divided over who should be the next president, a simple majority will deliver the entire states votes to one candidate or another. The Candidates cannot ignore those votes.
If, as in Texas, it's a forgone conclusion who will win, there is no reason to fight over the votes there. Because of that, again, smaller states, because of the electoral college can be more of a deciding factor. No president will ignore the big states once they are in office. They bring more people to congress, and have more clout in the day to day operations of the country. The best chance smaller states have to be heard, and have their particular needs considered by a presidential candidate is the electoral college. Otherwise, they have only a few congressman and two senators. Only in the senate are they equally represented.
For more info, check out:
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 11:54:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
If the popular vote was instituted, candidates for president would be forced to concentrate their campaigns in higher populated urban areas. While every vote may count, a few votes from Wyoming may not be worth the time and money it would take to get those votes. You would have the coasts, mostly, deciding who gets to be president. Since most states are a winner take all for electoral votes, the less populated states are better represented, in terms of clout, when it comes time for them to cast those electoral votes. If a state is somewhat evenly divided over who should be the next president, a simple majority will deliver the entire states votes to one candidate or another. The Candidates cannot ignore those votes.
If, as in Texas, it's a forgone conclusion who will win, there is no reason to fight over the votes there. Because of that, again, smaller states, because of the electoral college can be more of a deciding factor. No president will ignore the big states once they are in office. They bring more people to congress, and have more clout in the day to day operations of the country. The best chance smaller states have to be heard, and have their particular needs considered by a presidential candidate is the electoral college. Otherwise, they have only a few congressman and two senators. Only in the senate are they equally represented.
Thanks for the input Kil, you may have swayed me toward the electoral college. At least it kept Gore from office.
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 12:04:31 [Permalink]
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| I thought it was a good speech that answered allot of questions. He's no Clinton (as previously mentioned) when it comes to public speaking...but then again who is? Clinton has to be one of the better public speakers in history. For me Kerry could have stood up there and spoke gibberish and still got my vote....but at least now I can feel better about it. Pro stem cell and "a President of Science" were all I needed, but the rest sounded pretty good as well. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 13:03:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Gezza,
It never seases to amaze me why you have any interest at all in US politics. Most Americans don't...
Anyway, Kerry did show enough life to raise himself a step or two above the dead in personality. Unfortunately, most folks in Louisiana have already made up their minds. What matters is if Kerry can motivate the Dems to show up at the polls, because I can assure you that the Repugs will.
So, if Kerry and Edwards can motivate people enough, they have a chance of winning this state, and it's electorial votes. If it rains on election day, then Bush will win.
Sounds terribly cynical--Doesn't it? I think I just elevated skepticism to cynicism.
Anyway man, are you simply interested in American politics, or do you just want to see the Bushies fall so that the entire world can breathe easy once again?
Like most Americans, I don't even know who y'all's Prime Minister is. Is it still Howard? At least, I know you have a Parlimentary government. That's better than most people I know.
By the way, where in the world did the word Hansard come from? And, why?
I suppose the events after 9/11 have spiked up my interest in American politics. The republican's complete lack of respect for the rest of the world angered me so I started reading the American newspapers to get more info. We also have cable at home, so I get a steady stream of info from CNN, NBC Sky News in England and of course my favourite "Fair and Balanced" channel. From there my interest grew, now my wife says I'm a little obsessed with something so pointless. But…..if Kerry wins, it will put a stop to the potential American training bases planned for this country. I like my country just the way it is thank you very much.
From an outsider's point of view, this is an incredibly important election. If Bush gets in, the already rampant Anti-Americanism that is going on down here will get worse. So I suppose, yes I wanna see Bush go down so the world can once again breathe easier. Also. when I saw Clinton speak, it made me pine for a president who has mastered the English language.
The fanfare of your conventions never ceases to amaze me, if an Aussie politician had a feel-good movie with his life story narrated by Morgan Freeman, he would get arseholed out of office quicker than you can say “corny”. But they do seem to love it, that's why Americans are great. You certainly win when it comes to public displays of patriotism. I love my country just as much, I just don't feel I have to be so over the top.
For a good comparison of how Americans act compared to the other members of the “Coalition of the willing”, watch the U.S. Golf Open compared to the British Open. You Yanks just go nuts, where the Poms and Aussies are a lot more reserved.
Thumbs up to yer all though.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:32:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Anyway man, are you simply interested in American politics, or do you just want to see the Bushies fall so that the entire world can breathe easy once again?
It is a matter of great importance to the whole world. We all want to breathe easier.
Following this election will be like watching a thriller (you know, the kind that makes you jump up a meter just because the phone rings unexpectedly)... The one you barely dare watching yet you just have to in order to see what kind of stupid thing Bush will say next.
We get Jay Leno on cable here in Sweden, and judging the contents, I'd say the shows are fairly fresh. I howl at the gag "Bush speaking Spanish, Bush speaking English". And the joke "What's the similarity between GW Bush and Martha Stewart? - Both are afraid of long sentences..." |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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