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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 08/01/2004 : 05:08:21
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I recently went to movies to watch "King Arthur".
My greatest fear was confirmed: the "hollywoodization" of the King Arthur story. The undeniable clue was the tag-line "the true story behind the legend..."
If you remove all the names that indicate links to the King Arthur story, like Lancelot and Guinevere (how the f**k did a woman from the north of England end up with a name like that?) the movie itself was quite OK. Decent story, adequate plot if not original plot. In some places even good acting (though I'm a bit biased when it comes to Stellan Skarsgård).
What I dislike is the (sometimes gross) distortion of historical facts. Recently this article come came to my knowledge:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=546798
It's good to know that people actually voice their opinions about this kind of stuff.
quote:
"The irony is that Hollywood feels compelled to claim these films are based on a true story. They're not interested in truth, but at the same time, they're obsessed with attaching 'truth' to these films, because they think it's a better way to sell them."
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 07:04:02 [Permalink]
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This is another of those that I might see if my kids and grandkids rent the tape and force me to watch it. I ain't much of a movie fan, although I have some favorites.
Hollywood is in the business of fantasy, and that sort of colors anything else that they might do. I remember Disney's True Life Adventure series. Great photography and action, much bullshit -- thus it shall always be.
I'm a little light on Arthur and the Round Table, and so forth. Did they actually exist, or like the sword stuck in the stone nonsense, is it all ledgend?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 12:12:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I'm a little light on Arthur and the Round Table, and so forth. Did they actually exist, or like the sword stuck in the stone nonsense, is it all ledgend?
I'm also a little light on the Arthur legend. It does have many references to mythological deities, so the question is: how much of the story is true and how much is myth? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 16:21:57 [Permalink]
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| One of the Hollywood 'true' stories that pisses me off is the tosh spouted in ' U571 '. I appreciate that the real profits lie in the good 'ol U s of A, but is that a good enough excuse to distort and re-write history. (I'm thinking about the capturing of the 'Enigma' ciphering machine.) |
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"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 14:22:01 [Permalink]
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This reminds me of the movie "Troy" I saw recently. It's amazing that, according to Hollywood, Troy was conquered in 15 minutes.
If Hollywood did actually go by facts and truth rather than fantasy, there would be no audience. And yes, I could imagine how it would sell better. But does that mean people that see a movie should feel they've been educated on it's subject? Unfortunately, that's how many Americans (I can't speak for Earthlings) recieve their schooling. In an ideal world, Hollywood would be able to combine both fantasy and fact and mix them to create a perfect blend without having to tag the story as "truthful," that the people would be aware of the facts that have always been presently before them, instead, we educate ourselves with a winning plot line.
Eh. |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 15:46:12 [Permalink]
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If I may play the devil's advocate for a moment....
No one with a working thought process takes the movies, with the exception of documentaties, as anything but a good (or otherwise) story. Even the ones purported to be 'true'. If the story is interesting enough, it can be further pursued eleswhere.
Let's face it; Hollywood is not in the education business, nor should they be. They are there to entertain and they do it quite well. They are not at fault for the often mindless crap polluting the big and small screens; we are. We want that crap, are willing topay for it, and they are happy to supply it for as long as the ride lasts. Free enterprise, eh?
So, until popular tastes change we'll have to live with it. But fear not, tastes will change, although not necessarly for the better.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 18:14:45 [Permalink]
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Saving Private Ryan.
I'm sure there were some Poms there as well.......
They must have been stage left..... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 21:10:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, until popular tastes change we'll have to live with it. But fear not, tastes will change, although not necessarly for the better.
If I may ask, how do YOU think the tastes will change?
I have my ideas. I'm pretty sure things won't go back to a conservative road. Maybe people will start waking up and realizing how the pitiful crap fed into their stagnant minds simply pollutes all humanity. I believe if this were to happen it'd be over a process of several dozen years. |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 03:37:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by satans_mom
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, until popular tastes change we'll have to live with it. But fear not, tastes will change, although not necessarly for the better.
If I may ask, how do YOU think the tastes will change?
I have my ideas. I'm pretty sure things won't go back to a conservative road. Maybe people will start waking up and realizing how the pitiful crap fed into their stagnant minds simply pollutes all humanity. I believe if this were to happen it'd be over a process of several dozen years.
Yup.
The flicks from the forties and fifties are vastly different from what we have now. But as in all things, some were magnifincent and became classics (Giant, Gone with the Wind, The Three Stooges, etc.), others were crap (all of the horror/space invasion silliness plus the superficial garbage aimed at teens). We loved the good ones and the crap as well. Thus it is today, except that the crap is louder, bloodier and more violent and sillier, and enhanced technologicly so's you won't leave without a virtual lobotomy.
How will tastes change? Will we start watching more reasonable crap? We already are, on the toob, mainly -- Seinfeld, Friends, Cheers, Fraizer, Simpsons, ect. -- and again, we love it. I've read somewhere (no reference, sorry), that the Shrek cartoons will out-gross the Terminator series. A hopeful sign, yes?
Not really. There is new crap about called 'video games', many of which, I'm told (no first-hand experience, here), are beyond crap. And on line, you can find any sort of violent sexual perversion your heart might desire and stomach can stand.
Therefore, I don't know how tastes will change, but change they will, a little with each, passing fad.
Thinking a little more about it, perhaps the more they change, the more they will remain the same; the difference being in degree. Depressing, huh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 10:30:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I'm a little light on Arthur and the Round Table, and so forth. Did they actually exist, or like the sword stuck in the stone nonsense, is it all ledgend?
Mostly legends yes. The Arthurian legend incorporates many "sources", ie, many legends from all over Europe. If I remember correclty, a French fellow named Chrétien De Troye (sp?) wrote a book during the 13th century called "Perceval ou la légende du Graal" (Percival or the legend of the Grail) which is supposedly the first book to incorporate almost all known elements of the legend, such as the sword, the Holy Grail, Arthur (as King), the round table, etc, as well as a definitive Christian spin... However, many many books predates this one, such as William of Malmesbury's Gesta Regum Anglorum and Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae. A fun fact; the Holy Grail was not a cup originaly. It was a dish. And it was not Holy at all...
If you search the net, you'll probably find a lot of information that contradict what I just wrote (I aint no Arthurian scholar). Here's a quote from the Encyclopedia Mythica:
quote:
Every author that has ever wrapped his or her words around the legends has manipulated them to often very strange ends. No two books or scholars ever seem to agree. Nationalistic agendas abound.
Think Atlantis, but without the woo-woo. It's a facinating subject to study. Here's a few links:
Transformations of Celtic Mythology in Arthurian Legend
The Origin of Arthurian Legends
Chretien de Troyes, Arthurian Romances
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Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 14:03:09 [Permalink]
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Thanks Doc. That Encyclopedia Mythica link looks to be excellent! I'll browse it seriously soon.
So, like many stories of yore, Arthur was part truth and pretty much fantasy. I'd thought as much as we all love a good yarn and the facts need not apply (unless they border on the fantastic, o'course).
But, it's a fun yarn, worthy of Hollywood's attention. 
Again, thanks.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2004 : 22:38:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
If I may play the devil's advocate for a moment....
No one with a working thought process takes the movies, with the exception of documentaties, as anything but a good (or otherwise) story. Even the ones purported to be 'true'. If the story is interesting enough, it can be further pursued eleswhere.
You would be surprised how many times a friend or co-worker asked me about the veracity of these movies (King Arthur and Troy). It was rather frightening....
Anyway, could this be a violation of Truth in Advertising? What controls are there on any story being claimed true?
Hmmm.. I was about to lapse into an argument similar to the one in the Crown Books Kil Report. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2004 : 02:26:32 [Permalink]
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No Boron, I would not be at all suprised. But then, I seem to become more cynical with each, passing load of blather, however well presented. People tend to believe what they want regardless of the facts, or lack of them. Look at how well and for how long Miss Cleo pried money out of a gullible public. That gal was a great act. Even I enjoyed watching her commercials.
As for a violation, I suppose it is, but I wouldn't bother to take it to court. It would probably just get tossed as frivilous. And apart from perpetuating nonsense, it's relitivly harmless. At least it doesn't leave anybody bleeding on the theater floor -- that I've heard of, anyway.
We love myths, even though more often than not the real story is vastly more interesting (perhaps I'll write a brief essay on the Hoop Snake balderdash, sometime). We also love the fantastic, as Kil's story of the book store nicely demonstrates. Indeed, I'm sure that there are even some people who take the Weekly World News (a favorite of mine -- I love a spoof even more than a myth) seriously. Thus, Hollywood is delighted to present them to us and advertise them in ways to further enhance their appeal (and cash flow).
As mentioned earlier, anyone with a minimum of active brain cells will just enjoy the show. If he/she is really interested in the subject, The library and the net can fill in the blanks.
Unfortunatly, and happily for Hollywood et al, all too few of us actually look this stuff up. I have little doubt that the real story of the times of Arthur would make the flick pretty light-weight by comparison.
Hmm. Mayhaps I'll dig into it a bit m'damnself. This thread's waked up my curiosity -- not always a good thing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
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Topic Locked
