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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2004 : 08:51:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Indeed, the scrolls suggest that in many cases where the MT disagrees with the Greek Septuagent, the Greek version was correct; it was the MT that made the error.
Actually, what was shown was what Tov terms a plurality of textual traditions, with some being characterized as Proto-Masoretic, others Samaritan, and still others approximating a Septuagint Vorlage. Interestingly, the plurality evidenced at Qumran was not at all apparent with the Masada manuscripts, the bulk of which were masoretic in character. In any event, I would think that talk of the LXX being more or less correct is difficult to support and easy to misunderstand. In fact, although it might take me a while to dig up the reference, I believe that Tov suggests greater diversity among the various LXX-like witnesses than among the Proto-Masoretic (although, to be honest, he may have been including such items a tefillin and mezuzot).
It is, by the way, this diversity of texts (along with a multiplicity of scribal hands) that has convinced most scholars that Qumran represents a fairly general depository, rather than an Essene-produced library. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 08:53:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Tavion
do some research, if memory serves, the original transcripts of the bible are still preserved and that is what the bibles of today are copied from, it hasnt been changed, and yet it is perfect...
Just sitting here thinking about this it stuck me that you don't even need all that blah blah that I mentioned in my above post. Just look in your Bible. Ever notice who at the bottom of the page you'll see "footnotes" (or marginalia) like "The Greek adds 'such-and-such'" or "MT lacks 'this-and-that'"?
Those are all examples of where the various textual traditions don't agree. Again, the meaning doesn't usually change much , but it does show that there is no "perfect preservation" from the original manuscripts (whatever those are)...
Deuteronomy 32:8 is a wonderful example of the Maroretes cleaning up the record ...  |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 09:08:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
It is, by the way, this diversity of texts (along with a multiplicity of scribal hands) that has convinced most scholars that Qumran represents a fairly general depository, rather than an Essene-produced library.
This is the theory which I always felt best matched the material, and is what Prof. Norman Golb argued for in his Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?.
His arguments have not always been met with approval, however. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 10:24:35 [Permalink]
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| See, for example: |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 14:45:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
See, for example:
Hi, CA. Quick question-- are the above books arguing against the Essene-hypothesis, or for it? Or for/against somethign else? |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 16:12:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Welcome Tavion & Sintacks!
quote:
Originally posted by Tavion
go through the Bible and check it, you will find that the prophecies made hundreds and thousands of years before Jesus's birth remain true with the ones that are records of his birth,
Fine, present them. (Prophecies about Jesus birth that is, not the birth of some one named Imanuel.)
If the bible is simply a collection of stories and sayings written after their supposed occurrence, then prophecies may be nothing more than an ability by the author to predict the past. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 17:01:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
See, for example:
Hi, CA. Quick question-- are the above books arguing against the Essene-hypothesis, or for it? Or for/against somethign else?
The quick answer is "No" - if by "Essene-hypothesis" you are referring to the nature of Qumran. The books focus solely on the textual witnesses. As far as I know, their conclusion is noncontroversial.
As for Qumran, you are no doubt aware that the consensus continues to be that it was an Essene community. There have been (ineffective) critiques of this position in the past. Apparently, a new one is in the offing here. We'll see where it leads ... |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 17:04:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
If the bible is simply a collection of stories and sayings written after their supposed occurrence, then prophecies may be nothing more than an ability by the author to predict the past.
Nicely said. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 17:51:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
As for Qumran, you are no doubt aware that the consensus continues to be that it was an Essene community. There have been (ineffective) critiques of this position in the past. Apparently, a new one is in the offing here. We'll see where it leads ...
This is what I was alluding to otherwise. Golb, who argues against the Essene hypothesis, gave a talk several years ago here in Baltimore where he noted in passing how his objections to said theory were more or less ignored in an exhibit of the scrolls (exactly where they were displayed, I no longer recall).
I will look at your link and see what new evidences are being brought into the debate. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 10:17:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I will look at your link and see what new evidences are being brought into the debate.
I also just discovered quote:
A group of dissidents argues that the site must be disconnected from the scrolls. The manuscripts, written by high priests, were only transported to the caves immediately before the Roman siege of Jerusalem. Associate professor of archeology at Bar-Ilan University Hanan Eshel suggests that the majority of the manuscripts, although not all, are sectarian and were written by community members. He suggests that evidence for this thesis is rooted within the text of the scrolls themselves.
- see here
Tov a dissident? It sound more than a little absurd. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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