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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
 Posted - 08/23/2004 : 14:05:56 [Permalink]
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It really depends on the type of universe we are in. There is one theory that the universe oscillates (Closed Universe). You get the big bang and then expansion. At some point the universe stops expanding and begins to contract. This is due to mass and gravity. The universe is then shrunk into the same space at the beginning resulting in another big bang. It goes on and on and on in perpetual motion. This would make the universe finite( in size) but eternal. Perhaps it had no beginning or end.
The other theory is a slow fade to nothing (Flat Universe). The universe does not reach a critical threshold to begin contraction. It just expands into nothing. Everthing fades out. This universe is finite, with a beginning and an end.
There is one more. The universe will keep expanding and never stop (open Universe). This model there is a definite beginning but no end. To quote Hitchhikers Guide, Space is really really Really big.
So which model are we talking about here |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 05:30:39 [Permalink]
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Yes open universre has been the standard for awhile now.
quote:
What came before god was the primate species that eventually developed the ability to imagine external causation for the events around them. And what came after god was the evolutionary progress of the primate species that developed the ability to observe in a more careful way and find actual causation for the events around them instead of imagined causes.
Great quote Gal, explains the situation well! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 21:15:32 [Permalink]
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I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I have been extremly busy of late, in part because I just move.
My finding of faith story is long so I'll give a brief version. I have grown up in the church, and had my faith grow as the year's have passed. I find that the evidence for the amazing God that I believe in to be overwhelming. I have seen his grace in my life and other's. I have seen thing's beyond the evidence I just see in life as a whole. I have seen prayer's answered in near miraculous way's. I find that the more I think about him, and his truly amazing grace toward us, the more humbled I am, by realizing how much wiser, and more powerful he is then me.
I have many friend's who have helped me along the way. My father has been an amazing friend to me, and has always been available to talk.
Rubicon95, is actually someone who I will always consider a very close friend. I just moved 500 miles away from him, and miss the good times we had.
I have to get to bed. I have to be up very early in the morning, for a church event.
I'll try to respond sooner next time, but no promises. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 02:02:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
......... I find that the more I think about him, and his truly amazing grace toward us, the more humbled I am, by realizing how much wiser, and more powerful he is then me.........
Not to pop your balloon, C88, but tell me how you find grace in things like this? Do you just tune it out? Do you assume these folks deserve it? Do you think it's just part of God's plan and there is some hidden lesson or benefit in it all? |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 13:17:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
I find that the evidence for the amazing God that I believe in to be overwhelming.
Excellent. Now show us the evidence and also define god. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 19:56:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Ahh, you have shown me wrong C88. Thank you. Anyways, I think that we were all hoping that you would go into a little more detail than that. Perhaps naming specific incidences?
Well my son had a kidney problem, they where not growing at all!!! He would have needed a transplant at 13 or so. My mom told everyone she could at the church we go too. 1000 or so people prayed for him for several months, all over the country!!! Anyways his kidneys started to grow, it only happens 5% of the time. The doctors saw a complete healing. They work at 100% and thats not normal, no scar tissue!!! Doctors even called it a complete miracle!!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 23:47:41 [Permalink]
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My wife had the same problem when she was a kid.
(I don't know any name for this)
It stared growing when she was a teenager, complete recovery.
No prayers needed. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 23:54:32 [Permalink]
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| Ricky, we're back to that whole correlation/causation thing again.... clearly not a concept that verlch has even a fleeting grasp of. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 03:43:44 [Permalink]
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| So why are you privileged and the other 95% weren't? You think none of them prayed? You think you won the most prayers per person contest? And, didn't God give your kid the disease in the first place? How kind of him to take it back because you begged properly. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 05:32:15 [Permalink]
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I hate to be a smart ass but....
If we all prayed for verlich do you think we could get his brain to grow?
Like I said sorry to be a smart ass, I just couldn't help it. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 13:42:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Well my son had a kidney problem, they where not growing at all!!! He would have needed a transplant at 13 or so. My mom told everyone she could at the church we go too. 1000 or so people prayed for him for several months, all over the country!!! Anyways his kidneys started to grow, it only happens 5% of the time. The doctors saw a complete healing. They work at 100% and thats not normal, no scar tissue!!! Doctors even called it a complete miracle!!!!
First of all, I'm really glad your son's kidneys healed alright. But since it happens 5% of the time, then that's a much greater chance than winning the lottery, still people win. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Topic Locked
And the other 95%, well, they must just not have been good people.