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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Skyhawk
New Member
33 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2004 : 21:45:32 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, sexual reproduction ensures that we can adapt to changing environments. I mean, asexual is great if you have a perfect being/plant reproducing itself. But, the obvious disadvantage is that if there is an imperfection, that imperfection is constantly being replicated. Diversity means adaptation period. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 00:40:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Most advocates of evolutionism subscribe to a set of naturalistic and mechanistic—if not humanistic—philosophical presuppositions, attaching a “fundamentalist” bias to their perspective. This fact (which they zealously deny) severely erodes evolutionists' credibility, disqualifying them from any claim to objectivity in matters concerning origins and science. Much of the material published by evolutionists embodies precisely such a pseudo-scientific bias, often articulated under the pretense that it is the product only of purely objective and unprejudiced study.
This quote sounds like they have some sour grapes about what is said about them. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 04:04:48 [Permalink]
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That site's been up for quite a while. I found it perhaps a year or so ago and, after seeing that it's contributers were the same, old pack of young-earth blatherskites we all know and retoricly abuse, I went away.
What it is, Talk Origins has such an excellent base of researched information that these clowns can't refute it. That doesn't stop them from trying, though. Believe me, a discussion with Jonathon Sarfati is a confusing and often vicious excersize in ad hom. I've had a few on-line with him. In one, I posted the Leipzig essay on the impossibility of the Noahican (I snicker every time I see that word) Flood. He didn't even read it before ranting about 'garbage sites and references.' I rather doubt he's read it yet. But he has a genuine PhD in chemestry and, I'm told, plays chess almost at a Grand Master level.
John Woodmorappe (a pen name and a pretty good one, IMO) is a truly gifted quote-miner. He also has a towering and rather pittiful rant concerning radiometric dating.
And so forth.
Here's a site, roundly hated by AiG et al., that gives a pretty good picture of some of these charecters.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 04:07:53 [Permalink]
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| Looks like the same old creationist rubbish. As usual, they twist words such as theory, hypothesis and pseudoscience, apparently expecting people to believe them. Sadly, they're probably partly right. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 10:11:41 [Permalink]
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Beh! That site is full of sodding lies. Here's on example: Jorge Fernandez with his article: TalkOrigins: Deception by Omission.
I found that, and read the TO rebuttal to that, and took issue with him in a post in Theology Web.
Unfortunately the link in TWEB to Theology Forums where I first busted the guy and he stonewalled, are GONE...so I'll have to make due with a reference from someone who got there before the link got shut down.
This is from the post immediately following mine.
quote:
Thanks for the links; I checked it out. I had not seen that exchange before, but after reading it, you are IMO correct.
The above are serious charges, with imputations of deceit made on both sides. It is unfortunate that this occurs from time to time, but sometimes it is justified.
The guts of the matter as I see it is this.
-Jorge wrote an article, which he has cited above, indicating why he does not trust talkorigins. The article is Talk.Origins: Deception by Omission.
-The talkorigins archive has a response to this serious accusation, entitled simply A Reply to "Talk.Origins: Deception by Omission"
-As an aside, note that both Jorge, and Mike Dunford who wrote the talkorigins reply, are Christians. If people want to consider this matter seriously, they should not prejudge the matter based simply on who wrote the articles, but on their content.
-The link ilkhani'tus provides is to a discussion at Theology Forums. I concur with ilkhani'tus evaluation of having nailed Jorge to the wall; but others should check for themselves if they care.
-Jorge's article is centred on a response to the introductory FAQ at talkorigins. The form of the FAQ in question is a list of 24 questions and responses, given in all cases with links to places in the archive where that question is considered in more detail.
-Jorge considers seven of the questions, and suggests that they are deceptive by omission. However, in every single case Jorge quotes the Q&A incompletely. He quotes the first one or two sentences giving a simple position statement (this is, after all, a short Q&A summary intro to the entire archive) and omits immediately following sentences that direct readers to files in the archive where there is a more complete discussion. His response makes no attempt to consider the full discussion, but is confined to giving bad arguments against the short position statements, and then saying that there is deception by omission in not having his side presented.
That is not the worst flaw in Jorge's criticisms; but it is simple and easy to comprehend hypocrisy. It is the kind of thing which does make one despair of getting rational engagement with the issues.
<~~It should be noted that Sylas' post has the links to the TO article that refutes Jorge's claims. Sylas is also apparently, as he goes on to say, a contributor to TO himself. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 08/30/2004 10:24:03 |
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 00:03:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
which we know is an advantageous trait (to a species as a whole).
No no no! Remember we have selfish genes. If Evolution worked at the level of the species, we would expect Evolution to produce lots of altruistic creatures, which we know it doesn't.
I'm not sure about Mutations being a good thing though. On the whole, if your genes are prone to error, there is a greater chance that somthing bad is going to happen then good. I think that Evolution would try and stop mutation, but probably wouldn't be economically doable enough for it to be stopped. |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 02:37:02 [Permalink]
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Speaking of Talk Origins, they've just posted the July Feedback. We can all go get our TO fix, now. 
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/feedback/jul04.html
Edited to add forgotten, as usual, link. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/31/2004 02:44:08 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
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Topic Locked
