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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2004 : 08:19:27
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For much of this campaign, the Bush camp has tried to portray Kerry as a "flip-flopper" and thus as a person who changes his opinion. Ostensibly, this flip-flopping is a bad thing because it means that Kerry isn't a guy who sticks to his guns and instead listens too much to popular opinion.
Problem is, most of the Kerry flip-flops are lies and half-truths that the Bush camp has taken out of context and distorted. And unfortunately, our hapless media have done little to show the truth.
Worse still, the real flip-flopper is actually the President. A brand new example comes in today's New York Times, where Bush is noted to take a new stance regarding the 9/11 commission:
quote:
President Bush said on Wednesday that he wanted to give a new national intelligence director "full budgetary authority,'' a sharp shift from an earlier position and an acquiescence to a major recommendation of the Sept. 11 commission.
But this isn't the first flip-flop. Check here for a list of Bush flip-flops.
Amazing isn't it?
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 05:30:24 [Permalink]
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| It is true. I hope the Kerry-campaign will be able to get it's act together and use these flip-flops and defend their own. From what I hear till now, they aren't doing a very good job at it. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 10:23:55 [Permalink]
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| The dems need to seriously pull their heads out of their asses or they are going to get schooled in dirty politics by Rove and Cheney. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 10:39:18 [Permalink]
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| Oh they are all ready getting screwed, hell the fake bush doc only lasted one day before it was shot down. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:20:18 [Permalink]
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Shot down, "the fake Bush doc" was already shot down!?! So Bush really was the war hero, and Kerry was the dishonorable one... Smurf brains really cut through the crap, huh?
"Oh they are all ready getting screwed..," uh, 'they' be us, whats being screwed... |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:25:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Oh they are all ready getting screwed, hell the fake bush doc only lasted one day before it was shot down.
However, digitized copies were available as early as the first election.
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm
Not sure if this is faked, but I didn't see the typewriter inconsistancies complained about in the new documents.
Since this was used in 2000, Bush being suspended from flying duties because he did not submit to a flight readiness physical.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:33:02 [Permalink]
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Did I say he was a war hero? No, I said the Doc was shot down thats all. The 'They' refers to the previous statements 'They' meaning democrats.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5955784/
So if you could please dont imply that I am a Bush supporter/apologist, thanks nubi. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:25:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Smurf said:
Oh they are all ready getting screwed, hell the fake bush doc only lasted one day before it was shot down.
The article you posted only looks like the documents were "shot at", not shot down. Time will tell.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 14:05:13 [Permalink]
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Clearly the Bush response is to plant the rumor the docs are fakes. Truth is, the info is there without the docs. But the Republicans aren't concerned about facts, only marketed talking points. If you put out "It's a fake" on the airwaves, the news is neutralized.
I'm waiting for the guy who said he got Bush Jr. a sweet deal as a favor to Daddy to get more notice.
Do you suppose the Republicans are aware, if they send out the new 60 Minutes documents, which they did, and put out 'the documents are fake' data at the same time, they can shift the focus to 60 Minutes, Dan Rather, and neutralize the documents while at the same time override the coverage of the guy who says he got Bush Jr into the National Guard ahead of hundreds of others on the waiting list?
Am I thinking too much conspiracy here? Are the Republicans that calculating and clever?
Next we have Kitty Kelley's book. The plot thickens. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 14:35:53 [Permalink]
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I see that the Bush election team is so satisfied with their recent success with the Swiftvet fiasco that they feel they can create doubt about anything. Next they will be telling us shit doesn't stink. They have a nimble team ready to counter bad news. What we need is a media that will stick with it if they are indeed reporting facts and not give up. That seems to be a lot to ask these days but if we had that for the last 3 and a half years we might not be where we are now.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 17:18:46 [Permalink]
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I'm not sure I understand why "flip-flopping", changing ones mind, is such a bad thing. Especially if it is changing ones mind due better and more recent information/data. That seems an incredibly positive/intelligent thing to do.
Changing the justification for decision due to the original justification being wrong seems creative, unreasonable, child-like, and dishonest. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 20:36:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
I'm not sure I understand why "flip-flopping", changing ones mind, is such a bad thing. Especially if it is changing ones mind due better and more recent information/data. That seems an incredibly positive/intelligent thing to do.
Changing the justification for decision due to the original justification being wrong seems creative, unreasonable, child-like, and dishonest.
This is the question to be asked. Too bad our press corps sucks too much to ask it.
So is changing one's mind such a bad thing? On it's own, it shouldn't be. After all, if you choose a stance and then, after being exposed to more data and information, change that stance for the better, isn't that a good thing? There are plenty of examples to help make this clear. For instance, Homeland security. Bush was against it, then he was for it. Was this a bad idea? Time will tell. But we should assume that the constant influx of new data forced him to change his mind for the better. This is a good thing.
But what about the war in Iraq? A bunch of idiots-- you know, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.-- told Bush that he could invade on the cheap. Meanwhile, actual generals, as well as the State Department, argued for a greater troop presence. Bush didn't change his mind, and fucked up.
Then there's the vote on the $87 billion. Kerry wanted it funded one way, but Bush another. Kerry's vote against one version of the bill was a non-flip-flop, just as Bush's veto threat was. Yet sadly, our fucking lame-ass press recites this as a strike aginast Kerry.
Our President is a half-witted moron and our press corps are a bunch of lazy pseudeo-intellectuals. And our country's going to hell. See you there! |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2004 : 21:49:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
...Our President is a half-witted moron and our press corps are a bunch of lazy pseudeo-intellectuals...
You're too kind, and give both of them too much credit.  |
Paladin |
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