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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2004 : 07:18:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
That's cool. I listened to the BBC on the ride home and their correspondent said that most viewers would probably score the debate "a tie," with neither candidate really veering too far from previous talking points.
But on MSN's home page, a voter poll lists a 70%/30% result in favor of Kerry having fared better in the debate (with 589,310 responses). Now, I have noticed that most of the MSN polls tend to always have Kerry slightly ahead in most cases--not in reflection of national poll results--so take that with a grain of salt.
Also, from what sound bites I heard, Kerry did sound composed and eloquent. It was good to finally hear him speak when he wasn't bellowing over cheering crowd noise.
A little history. People who listened to the Presidential debate in 1960 thought Nixon won it while people who watched the debate thought Kennedy won.
Based on facts and content, I'd have to agree that it was a tie. I think, however, even on content, Kerry came out a little ahead but not much. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 08:19:35 [Permalink]
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| How surprising that this forum favors Kerry lol, but really the only way Bush won that debate was if you were wearing blinders and earmuffs. I was cracking up on numerous occasions when Bush just stopped dead.....uh........the terrorists gotta go. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 08:21:22 [Permalink]
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Here's the Rude Pundit's take on it.
quote:
The Rude Pundit was no fan of Ronald Reagan or George Bush, Sr., but you never got the feeling that they were actually, deep in their souls, stupid. You may have despised every word that they spoke, but you couldn't accuse them of simply being unable to comprehend the world around them. Watching W. last night sputter, stammer, smirk, squint, and sigh, one had to feel a deep unease at seeing this semi-coherent man fail at explaining away the deep failures of his administration's foreign policy. (And if someone doesn't make an ad of all of Bush's little quirky facial expressions and eye-rolling, then someone's not paying attention.)
John Kerry wasn't perfect. He misspoke (what was that about giving nuclear material to Iran?), he didn't deliver any great put-downs (and, Lord, oh, fuckin' lord, the opportunities were legion), and he missed several opportunities to demonstrate the lies of the Bush campaign (why the fuck didn't he bring up Bush's threatened veto of the $87 billion?). But Kerry looked like the goddamned President of the United States. He looked and spoke like the leader of a nation of nearly 300 million people, not the guy you don't even trust with the beer money for the keg party.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_rudepundit_archive.html
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 08:42:29 [Permalink]
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Factcheck.org on the first debate.
"In the first of three scheduled debates between Bush and Kerry both candidates sometimes departed from the facts..."
www.georgewbush.com refers to this page several times.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
| Edited by - Starman on 10/01/2004 08:46:05 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:00:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
I hope for all our sake Kerry wins....he may be Bush Lite, but christ we have to get those Republicans outta office.
You know things are bad in the US when I am more worried about who wins your election than who wins our election in a couple of weeks.
I second that. I fear especially for my country's sake. They're already coming with that story of nuclear-gun-traffic again. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:49:16 [Permalink]
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| Well, one of the CNN talking heads just said that all of the polls so far have shown that Kerry won last night's debate. But, he also pointed out that since the days of Reagan, most of the winners of the first Presidential debates did not go on to become President. Mondale, Gore and Perot were mentioned prominently. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:58:54 [Permalink]
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I do not think that the final score on the debate was anything like 50/50. I've now read the transcript and gone looking for opinions, both left end right. I'd score it 65/35, Kerry.
Here's another take on it:
quote:
I thought Kerry did very, very well; and I thought Bush did poorly — much worse than he is capable of doing. Listen: If I were just a normal guy — not Joe Political Junkie — I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate, I would. If I were just a normal, fairly conservative, war-supporting guy: I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate.
And I promise you that no one wants this president reelected more than I. I think that he may want it less.
http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200410010114.asp
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 10:25:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, one of the CNN talking heads just said that all of the polls so far have shown that Kerry won last night's debate. But, he also pointed out that since the days of Reagan, most of the winners of the first Presidential debates did not go on to become President. Mondale, Gore and Perot were mentioned prominently.
This points out a fact about most major network and cable news political reporting in the USA these days. Its all milk-toast. Even the most obvious story has to be "balanced" so as not to put off half the viewers (i.e. the sponsor's potential customers) who might be offended by the facts. By his statements Kerry swept Bush aside. Just by his demeanor, Kerry looked completely "Presidential." On the other hand, Bush repeated his empty-headed charges (without substantiation) over and over, and looked alternately annoyed or frightened.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 10:26:55 [Permalink]
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| Should Bush even debate Kerry two more times? I mean I hope he does, he got his ass handed to him last night by Kerry and I'm all for that happening again and again. I realize that Bush would get a ton of flak if he bailed on the next two debates but which is worse? I tried to be as unbiased as possible going into the debate but it was clear the Kerry took control about 20-30 minutes into it. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 10:40:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by astropin
Should Bush even debate Kerry two more times? I mean I hope he does, he got his ass handed to him last night by Kerry and I'm all for that happening again and again. I realize that Bush would get a ton of flak if he bailed on the next two debates but which is worse? I tried to be as unbiased as possible going into the debate but it was clear the Kerry took control about 20-30 minutes into it.
If Bush bails, it'll hurt him worse. It'll make him look like a coward. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 10:44:26 [Permalink]
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| Coward or Doofus, take your pick Mr. President. Dont forget according to Mrs. Kerry he will produce Osama right before the election. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 12:34:08 [Permalink]
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Match the word with the candidate that it best describes:
statesmanlike/presidential
Neocon mouthpiece
substantive
dogmatic
confident
nervous
knowledgable
grasping
offensive
defensive
strong
beseeching/begging
forthcoming
dodging
I think if you perform this simple excersize it will be very clear to you which candidate "won" the debate!
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"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 12:40:34 [Permalink]
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I think Kerry made his most telling points when discussing the proliferation of WMD, particularly the securing of vulnerable stocks in Russia and elsewhere.
Also, Kerry used more sports analogies that Bush: "Eye on the goal" (football) and "Eye on the ball" (baseball) might win over some of those swing voters who think that windsurfing is a girlyman sport! |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
| Edited by - walt fristoe on 10/01/2004 12:42:05 |
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