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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2001 : 19:25:26 [Permalink]
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Is it possible that there's a god. Sure, it's possible, but possibility doesn't mean that it is reality. Until god moves from the realm of possibility to the realm of reality well, I'll still call the possibility irrelevant.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 17:06:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is it possible that there's a god. Sure, it's possible, but possibility doesn't mean that it is reality. Until god moves from the realm of possibility to the realm of reality well, I'll still call the possibility irrelevant.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
I is far more rational in my to believe in aliens or extraterrestrials than God and his heavenly angels, as we can use our Earth as one good example the this phenonema of life can and does happen at once that we know of. I may use the argument in this case that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There has been good evidince leaning in that direction of extraterrestrial life like the existence of stellar planets, complex organic matter in space.
God is just purely book or art based and many fundamentalist Christians claim you can prove the existence of God merely by reading the Bible. I can no more prove the existence of God by reading the bible than I can prove the existence of a certain mythical giant white whale by reading Moby Dick.
Even the Yeti is a lot more plausible than God as there has be at least few examples of very similar stories the Yeti the did come true. I must admit I am very skeptical of a living Yeti, but if one turns up in the Himalayas I would be turning somersaults. Because the gorilla was not proven by science until the mid 1850s until then the old hairy beast was based purely on anecdotal evidence like the Yeti. The other one is the Gigantopithocene only one scull to date of this giant ape has be found in an old Himalayan cave.
Bob
Remember: when you die you philosophy dies with you.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 21:34:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
I is far more rational in my to believe in aliens or extraterrestrials than God and his heavenly angels, as we can use our Earth as one good example the this phenonema of life can and does happen at once that we know of. I may use the argument in this case that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There has been good evidince leaning in that direction of extraterrestrial life like the existence of stellar planets, complex organic matter in space.
God is just purely book or art based and many fundamentalist Christians claim you can prove the existence of God merely by reading the Bible. I can no more prove the existence of God by reading the bible than I can prove the existence of a certain mythical giant white whale by reading Moby Dick.
Even the Yeti is a lot more plausible than God as there has be at least few examples of very similar stories the Yeti the did come true. I must admit I am very skeptical of a living Yeti, but if one turns up in the Himalayas I would be turning somersaults. Because the gorilla was not proven by science until the mid 1850s until then the old hairy beast was based purely on anecdotal evidence like the Yeti. The other one is the Gigantopithocene only one scull to date of this giant ape has be found in an old Himalayan cave.
Bob
Remember: when you die you philosophy dies with you.
When you have an actual comprehensible something to say would you please say it. Reading this I don't see what this has to do with my view regarding a god belief as being irrelevent in absentia of proof. I seem to lack any understanding of what this has to do with anything in particular.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ETs are possible, but they most likely aren't here visiting earth, there isn't sufficient evidence to support the claim. Yeti is possible, but there tends to be a deplorable lack of paleontological evidence of its existence.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a correct statement. However, I've chosen to reserve judgement until there is evidence of some type that meets standards (not that there trully are any) of the scientific method. Being reproducible and then subject to review.
A god thing is possible, until it makes itself known/quantifiable the concept of the god thing is irrelevant.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 08/30/2001 21:35:00
Edited by - Trish on 08/30/2001 21:36:10 |
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 17:46:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
When you have an actual comprehensible something to say would you please say it. Reading this I don't see what this has to do with my view regarding a god belief as being irrelevent in absentia of proof. I seem to lack any understanding of what this has to do with anything in particular.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ETs are possible, but they most likely aren't here visiting earth, there isn't sufficient evidence to support the claim. Yeti is possible, but there tends to be a deplorable lack of paleontological evidence of its existence.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a correct statement. However, I've chosen to reserve judgement until there is evidence of some type that meets standards (not that there trully are any) of the scientific method. Being reproducible and then subject to review.
A god thing is possible, until it makes itself known/quantifiable the concept of the god thing is irrelevant.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 08/30/2001 21:35:00
Edited by - Trish on 08/30/2001 21:36:10
I could not agree with you more when you use that well known phrase ”Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence” I was going to use that very phrase myself. But I does leave open the question what you define as an “extraordinary claim” Science and religion is replete with extraordinary claims, but science will often self correct itself if any test to that extraordinary claim does not yield the predicted consequences. Then that extraordinary claim is thrown out. Whereas religion is much more rigid and dogmatic; they will stick by it through thick and thin. Some people interpret this unwavering dogmatism as a strength. I prefer to use the phrase “if you are too rigid, you will break”. And Christian religion has a few catastrophic breakages over the years if you read your history. There has never been such schisms in science.
Science has over the years made a lot more extraordinary claims then religion like Sir Fred Hoyle's steady state theory but unlike religion the scientist who makes these extraordinary claims will often find himself standing alone if the scientific method discredits his theory like the late Sir Fred Hoyle.
Western religion is dominated by one extraordinary claim – God – the mother of all extraordinary claims.
Bob
Remember: when you die your philosophy dies with you
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 19:26:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Western religion is dominated by one extraordinary claim – God – the mother of all extraordinary claims.
Bob
I thought it is the Father! Whatever.
 nlm
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2001 : 08:52:14 [Permalink]
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But I does leave open the question what you define as an “extraordinary claim”
Well, let's look at the god thing for a moment. I'm supposed to believe on faith that there is this entity living in the sky that kicks up dust when he walks around his house to create clouds. I'm supposed to bleive on faith that this thing is kind, loving and just when he orders his people upon several instances to kill every man, woman and child among them. I'm supposed to believe on faith this thing that doesn't have a form, is intensely interested in my personal life, doesn't necessarily need to answer my prayer, or will intercede on my behalf and lift all rules of physics, biochemistry, whatever, to prevent or cure some thing. Hmm, sounds like some extraordinary claims to me.
UFOs, aliens regularly visit earth, cut up cattle, abduct people from their homes by causing them to ooze (quantum mechanic variety?) through walls, examine their sexual organs, cause women to become pregnant without one iota of proof beyond the allegorical. Hmm, another extraordinary claim.
Yeti/Bigfoot/Sasquatch, I'm supposed to believe that there is this monster that is proto-human wandering around that leaves no tracks and no paleontological evidence of it's existence. Hmm, extraordinary claim.
Where's the evidence? It's all allegorical in nature. Allegorical claims of these types are generally, to me, extraordinary.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2001 : 04:49:50 [Permalink]
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UFOs, aliens regularly visit earth, cut up cattle, abduct people from their homes by causing them to ooze (quantum mechanic variety?) through walls, examine their sexual organs, cause women to become pregnant without one iota of proof beyond the allegorical. Hmm, another extraordinary claim.
Yeti/Bigfoot/Sasquatch, I'm supposed to believe that there is this monster that is proto-human wandering around that leaves no tracks and no paleontological evidence of it's existence. Hmm, extraordinary claim.
Where's the evidence? It's all allegorical in nature. Allegorical claims of these types are generally, to me, extraordinary.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
I never take those cheap and badly edited magazines with badly printed images of UFOs all that seriously. I choose to just ignore them.
Bob
Remember: when you die your philosophy dies with you
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2001 : 08:59:54 [Permalink]
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I never take those cheap and badly edited magazines with badly printed images of UFOs all that seriously. I choose to just ignore them.
Now, when I see an article regarding aliens visiting the earth in Science or Nature - I'll stop and reconsider.
But, you had asked what I would consider an extraordinary claim. I was merely illustrating the point.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2001 : 15:21:21 [Permalink]
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Trish:
quote:
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Burning in hell? That sounds SEXY like some eternal sadomasochistic act(s). Wow! I will bet that there is a line down there (or wherever) threatening to break down the doors (doors?) to get in...
That idea ought to be aggressively marketed. It just might sell.
ljbrs
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2001 : 16:39:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I never take those cheap and badly edited magazines with badly printed images of UFOs all that seriously. I choose to just ignore them.
I will also through in "cold fusion"
Now, when I see an article regarding aliens visiting the earth in Science or Nature - I'll stop and reconsider.
But, you had asked what I would consider an extraordinary claim. I was merely illustrating the point.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
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Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 23:59:20 [Permalink]
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Hmmm. I can't do experiments with a particle collider 'cause I don't have one, but experts have used them and most of them agree on the results (not necessarily on theoretical interpretation, however!) so I believe them. I can also do some simple experiments like the double-slit and confirm that these work as described.
I have never witnessed a miracle or experienced religious revelation. In this field, however, when I look to those who should be experts I see precious little agreement. Zen Buddhists seem to see one Universe, Catholics another, and Hindus another still. Unlike physics, there does not seem to be any objective truth to be had.
And so I am much more inclined to doubt the existence of God or gods than to doubt the existence of the virtual particles that inhabit the vacuum. I suspect that gods are wholly subjective and exist only in the mind. I could be wrong.
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes" |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2001 : 21:10:10 [Permalink]
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And so I am much more inclined to doubt the existence of God or gods than to doubt the existence of the virtual particles that inhabit the vacuum. I suspect that gods are wholly subjective and exist only in the mind. I could be wrong.
Can I second this? (Wait, um, think I just did.)
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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