|
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2004 : 07:56:09
|
quote:
TORONTO (CP) - When President George W. Bush spoke of importing Canadian flu vaccine during Wednesday's election debate, many in the U.S. public health community were struck by the irony of an administration that slams the door on cheaper Canadian drugs, but looks north for help with an embarrassing vaccine shortage.
I thought Bush said "We can't be sure of the quality of the drugs from Canada".
Then Tommy Tompson said that it is unlikely that we would get the vaccines from unlicensed suppliers this year.
So... our admistrations stand on flu vaccines is:
We have enough vaccine for this year... Now we don't... Now we have enough because we can get it from Cananda... Now we won't take it from Canada so we are short again... What's next - I have got a freaking clue what these clowns will do next!
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2004 : 08:28:36 [Permalink]
|
| Blame the Flu-epidemic on Clinton, thats what. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 08:36:21 [Permalink]
|
The sickest I've ever been was from a flu shot in the '60s. I haven't had one since -- I'd rather have the flu.
Whilst in town this morning for snuff and stuff, I saw a line going almost all the way 'round the block of people waiting to get a flu shot. There seems to be something of a minor panic over it.
This is the most incompetent administration in living memory and probably in history. Observe: on 9-11-01, Bush was handed the opportunity to achieve greatness, to be right up there with the finest this country has produced, and he blew it. He blew it so badly that his name will ultimatly go down in infamey. And we expect his administration to keep track of medicines that many people consider vital? I'd trust my house 'possum to guard the Sacred Sardine and a leftover hushpuppy, sooner.
November can't get here soon enough.
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 08:44:59 [Permalink]
|
It was interesting, during the last debate, that Bush basically started to say that we may be getting the vaccine from Canada and then realized, I guess, that he supports the notion that we cant trust the quality of prescription drugs from Canada. So he stopped in mid sentence and continued on by telling Americans to not take the vaccine unless they are at risk....
I was hoping Kerry would pounce, but he didn't... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 11:49:10 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
It was interesting, during the last debate, that Bush basically started to say that we may be getting the vaccine from Canada and then realized, I guess, that he supports the notion that we cant trust the quality of prescription drugs from Canada. So he stopped in mid sentence and continued on by telling Americans to not take the vaccine unless they are at risk....
I was hoping Kerry would pounce, but he didn't...
I agree. It would have been a picture moment to say, "You're saying we are getting flu vaccines from Canada but you won't let seniors buy their drugs from there, Mr. President." |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 13:23:21 [Permalink]
|
| Logic and reason aren't Mr. Piece-of-Lawn's specialty, I suppose. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 13:40:20 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
The sickest I've ever been was from a flu shot in the '60s. I haven't had one since -- I'd rather have the flu.
Really? The infamous swine flu vaccine was made in 1976. This was the first year widespread use of flu vaccine was recommended. What flu shot did you get in the 60s?
Time for you to research that misconception you have in your head.
Flu vaccine is safe, it doesn't make you ill, and the flu itself kills thousands every year.
Side effects can be mild discomfort at the injection site, and RARELY a low grade fever and feeling poorly for a day or two. Serious side effects occur in the 1 per million doses range or less.
I give this vaccine to about 1200 people every year. I get one every year. My son gets one every year. The only serious side effect any of my patients have reported to me was one guy who got 'brachial neuritis' meaning his arm hurt for several months. It got better and he still gets flu shots from me every year.
And you call yourself a skeptic? |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 13:45:18 [Permalink]
|
| I was actually very concerned that Tommy Thompson announced we wouldn't get any flu vaccine from Canadian companies because they weren't licensed in the US. There is no reason the public health or FDA cannot evaluate any company via the standards met in the country they are licensed in under the emergency conditions of this year's flu vaccine shortage. This guy and whoever is behind the decision are putting politics of drug company profits above lives. I encourage you all here to complain to your politicians because it sucks, big time. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 14:02:19 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
The sickest I've ever been was from a flu shot in the '60s. I haven't had one since -- I'd rather have the flu.
Really? The infamous swine flu vaccine was made in 1976. This was the first year widespread use of flu vaccine was recommended. What flu shot did you get in the 60s?
Time for you to research that misconception you have in your head.
Flu vaccine is safe, it doesn't make you ill, and the flu itself kills thousands every year.
Side effects can be mild discomfort at the injection site, and RARELY a low grade fever and feeling poorly for a day or two. Serious side effects occur in the 1 per million doses range or less.
I give this vaccine to about 1200 people every year. I get one every year. My son gets one every year. The only serious side effect any of my patients have reported to me was one guy who got 'brachial neuritis' meaning his arm hurt for several months. It got better and he still gets flu shots from me every year.
And you call yourself a skeptic?
I was in the service at the time and have no idea what sort of vaccine was given. It is possible that whatever I and a number of others came down with was cooincidental, of course. But I still ain't getting the shot.
Now a shot of booze.....
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 10/16/2004 14:03:40 |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 14:29:19 [Permalink]
|
| The flu vaccine gives me a fever everytime I get it.... haven't taken one in a couple years because of that reason. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 20:32:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
The sickest I've ever been was from a flu shot in the '60s. I haven't had one since -- I'd rather have the flu.
Really? The infamous swine flu vaccine was made in 1976. This was the first year widespread use of flu vaccine was recommended. What flu shot did you get in the 60s?
Time for you to research that misconception you have in your head.
Flu vaccine is safe, it doesn't make you ill, and the flu itself kills thousands every year.
Side effects can be mild discomfort at the injection site, and RARELY a low grade fever and feeling poorly for a day or two. Serious side effects occur in the 1 per million doses range or less.
I give this vaccine to about 1200 people every year. I get one every year. My son gets one every year. The only serious side effect any of my patients have reported to me was one guy who got 'brachial neuritis' meaning his arm hurt for several months. It got better and he still gets flu shots from me every year.
And you call yourself a skeptic?
I was in the service at the time and have no idea what sort of vaccine was given. It is possible that whatever I and a number of others came down with was coincidental, of course. But I still ain't getting the shot.
Now a shot of booze.....
Well, I researched it for you.
Apparently there was a flu vaccine prior to the mass vaccination campaign in 1976. My research turned up the fact Trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) has been available since the 1940s.
There were a number of vaccines in use in the 60s. So in order to determine if your reaction was to one of them, not the flu vaccine; to the flu vaccine; or the reaction was not from any vaccine; we'd need to know more.
While I did not find where the 1940s vaccine differs from today's version that helps us answer the question, I did find this oversimplified stuff on Web MD:
quote:
Myths about the flu vaccine
Many people choose not to have the influenza vaccine because of myths they believe about the disease or the vaccine.
Myth: Influenza is a minor illness.
Truth: Influenza and its complications cause about 20,000 deaths in the United States each year.
Myth: The vaccine causes the flu.
Truth: You cannot get the flu by having a flu shot. Influenza vaccine in the U.S. is made of killed virus and therefore cannot cause the flu.
Myth: The vaccine causes unpleasant side effects.
Truth: The vaccine causes no side effects in most people. Earlier vaccines (1940s to 1960s) did, in fact, have more, unpleasant side effects.
Myth: The vaccine is ineffective because some people had an illness like the flu after having the shot.
Truth: Influenza vaccine effectiveness varies from year to year because new strains of flu viruses develop.
I don't find Web MD particularly helpful since it doesn't give any basis for conclusions.
(And, that last line is totally screwy, so here's a better explanation. The vaccine works but there are ~200 other respiratory infections which are not flu and which the vaccine does not protect you from. The vaccine effectiveness varies, but in general thousands of persons would have died each year without the vaccine, and many thousands more are prevented from severe disease and hospitalizations. This claim is based on evidence and re-evaluated every year.)
We did use whole cell flu vaccine in the past and only split cell vaccine now. Whole cell flu vaccine had > side effects in kids but not in adults.
So, if you did have a flu vaccine reaction, it is unlikely to mean anything about today's vaccine. If you had some symptoms after a vaccination, we need a lot more information to determine if it was a reaction or merely a coincidence. And, if you were given several vaccinations, it could have been a reaction to any of them.
Given the distortion of memories over time, I'm not willing to accept any conclusions.
But, given the excellent track record of today's flu vaccination and how dangerous the flu can be, I'd say it's time for you to stop repeating the significance your of experience as anything other than something that may have happened to you with a past flu vaccination, but has no relevance to today's vaccine. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/16/2004 20:39:18 |
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
